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why are new mmos so ping reliant?


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im not talking people with 500ping(ms) should be fine but 200ms vs 20ms should not equal a loss of almost 40% damage on a locked down target.

im super glad we are finally walking away from the wow type combat but why are we not keeping some sort of skill que that is half a second long to help keep someone on 200ms equal terms with someone on 20ms?

when the online quake tournaments first happened we used a server side based system that sent the key press to the server before your client did anything and this resulted in everyone but those living next to the server to have a horrible laggy and choppy experience. that is why we now have (what every online game uses) client side prediction. this allowed for people away from the server to see everything get updated on their end smoothly while only being "rubber banded" when there was a spike in the connection.

now i want to know why we are not using skill ques when macros that does a combo for you is against the rules anyway so how would a skill que do anything but improve the combat for the majority of players? before you argue "it's not that big a deal if you're at 200ms" watch at least 30 seconds of this video then come back and say that.
 



it will be the same in any game. if you have to choose between two people of same class and skill but one is going to do 30% more damage why would you pick the other? other then a pity party.

other things like location and hit boxes aren't as bad in this game and can be improvised with a little bit of prediction from the user but not being able to attack as fast as someone who lives closer to the server should be shown as horrible game design and nothing else. it adds nothing skill and only those who live near the server get the advantage of this.

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If you put a skill queue on the combat it wouldn't be much different than WoW. The reason why the old type of combat works is because it doesn't require good ping. Action combat is supposed to be instant hence the need for good ping.

 

Unfortunately this is just what you get with this type of game, there's no way to avoid it so if you have high ping you will always be at a disadvantage in pve and pvp. Anything above 150ms I don't even consider playing. Playing at 230ms is just pointless.

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wait, is this with no skill tree? One of the skill trees increases your attack speed. Cause my ping is around 50 but my speed feels like the one on the right. Also, this video was from 2014 so I honestly feel that this video is too outdated to prove anything.

Edited by Xellon
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7 minutes ago, Wylphen said:

If you put a skill queue on the combat it wouldn't be much different than WoW. The reason why the old type of combat works is because it doesn't require good ping. Action combat is supposed to be instant hence the need for good ping.

 

Unfortunately this is just what you get with this type of game, there's no way to avoid it so if you have high ping you will always be at a disadvantage in pve and pvp. Anything above 150ms I don't even consider playing. Playing at 230ms is just pointless.


how? if the hitbox is still the same? all it is doing is allowing you to tell the server the next skill u want to use asap instead of waiting for the client to tell you that you can send a skill then telling the server to send the skill.

they may have used attack speed boosts tree but both builds are the same for testing.

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5 minutes ago, Flylow said:

Because companies are now trying to keep out players that don't live where the server is mean't to be played like they should have been doing since the beginning of time. Duh.

the whole point of adding client side prediciton was to allow people who don't live next to the server to enjoy a more smooth online experience.

if that's true they should allow all australians or people with more then 200ping to have a full refund because you don't notice this complete unbalance till end game.

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2 minutes ago, Schatten Katzen said:


how? if the hitbox is still the same? all it is doing is allowing you to tell the server the next skill u want to use asap instead of waiting for the client to tell you that you can send a skill then telling the server to send the skill.

they may have used attack speed boosts tree but both builds are the same for testing.

You cant queue skills that requires stun/daze/knock up etc, coz u wont be able to use those skills until u get the status effects on mobs. And you might not be able to predict status effect due to possible block/evade/resis...

Its hard for me to do status effect combo on boss (im playing with 250ms), while blocking skill is still possible when i'm familiar with the bosses' skills or when i'm really focusing.

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Adding to what I posted earlier. I think in the video Op posted, he had the atk speed skill tree on. Those R click fast stabs on the video is about the same speed I can do. Preety sure this is a troll video.......

 

However, its still true that the ping effects attack speed.

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Just now, Xellon said:

Adding to what I posted earlier. I think in the video Op posted, he had the atk speed skill tree on. Those R click fast stabs on the video is about the same speed I can do. Preety sure this is a troll video.......

 

However, its still true that the ping effects attack speed.

ask any of the 1800+ rating pvpers and they will tell you how much ping matters. not because of reaction but because you can't animation cancel and you do less damage. heck a button press que would be fine too then. so if im pressing f to que cut throat because i know im about to stun then it should do cut throat then.

either way the fact remains people are doing less damage because they live further away from the server. this should be seen as bad design.

people who live further away from the server will always have a slightly worse experince but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do a little to asist in improving that. the simple fact is if they both did not have the speed boos the % would not change. these were done with the same build set. it was done on a koran server where people are 50 with the skill that gives an attack speed boost.

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10 minutes ago, Schatten Katzen said:

the whole point of adding client side prediciton was to allow people who don't live next to the server to enjoy a more smooth online experience.

if that's true they should allow all australians or people with more then 200ping to have a full refund because you don't notice this complete unbalance till end game.

No, you notice the latency almost straight away (well I did). It doesn't phase me though since I've been waiting a long time to play Blade and Soul. However I'd appreciate an Oceanic server to really enjoy the class as intended.

 

5 minutes ago, Xellon said:

However, its still true that the ping effects attack speed.

 

and dont forget PVP is like a dog chasing a car your never gonna catch it.

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Just now, Savagevine said:

No, you notice the latency almost straight away (well I did). It doesn't phase me though since I've been waiting a long time to play Blade and Soul. However I'd appreciate an Oceanic server to really enjoy the class as intended.

 

 

and dont forget PVP is like a dog chasing a car your never gonna catch it.


even wow's Oceanic server isn't near Australia(last i checked). the only large gaming company i know that has an actual server in/near Australia is Riot with LoL. Blizzard has pushed the blame to Telstra and other ISP because of the cost of running a server. in my honest opinion getting a game companie to add some small skill que is a lot easier then getting them to add an oceanic server when even blizard wont do it for wow.

honestly id rather a server in australia too but that's the cheaper option.

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19 minutes ago, Schatten Katzen said:


even wow's Oceanic server isn't near Australia(last i checked). the only large gaming company i know that has an actual server in/near Australia is Riot with LoL. Blizzard has pushed the blame to Telstra and other ISP because of the cost of running a server. in my honest opinion getting a game companie to add some small skill que is a lot easier then getting them to add an oceanic server when even blizard wont do it for wow.

honestly id rather a server in australia too but that's the cheaper option.

It is, all of WoW's Oceanic servers are hosted in an Australian data center, data migration was finalized on November 14, 2014. As you can imagine it vastly improved game play. 

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Just now, EhUEHUHE said:

This is not a new MMO it was developed years ago , the engine is old . 

As for the ping issue , well it's a action based MMO .  

Having decent 50-60 ping is a must for certain classes in PvP .


but it doesn't have to be so dam heavy! while it will always be better to live near the server unless NCSoft wants to provide us with an australian server they should at least do something to assists players who want to support the game.

WildStar flunked in australia purely because of no oceanic servers. and as the other guy stated that he wouldn't play on a server when he has more then 150ping how do you think all the australian mmo players are? how many australian gamers are being kept out of these games because of the ping?

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4 minutes ago, Schatten Katzen said:


but it doesn't have to be so dam heavy! while it will always be better to live near the server unless NCSoft wants to provide us with an australian server they should at least do something to assists players who want to support the game.

WildStar flunked in australia purely because of no oceanic servers. and as the other guy stated that he wouldn't play on a server when he has more then 150ping how do you think all the australian mmo players are? how many australian gamers are being kept out of these games because of the ping?

Are you using WTFast ? If you aren't yet , start using it . I know it helped tons of people with ping issues .

Sorry that the Australian players can't enjoy the game like they definitely should :S

Edited by EhUEHUHE
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Just now, EhUEHUHE said:

Are you using WTFast ? If you aren't yet , start using it . I know it helped tons of people with ping issues .

Sorry that the Australian players can't enjoy the game like they definitely should :S

i am using WTFast. if i was not id be playing at 250-350. i lose my friends list and access to my wardrobe but right now i have 190ms (a first as it's usually between 200-215) and would not be playing otherwise.

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So pretty much living in the state of PA, I can't beat those who live in Texas....... attack speed wise. great........... However I haven't seen anyone in game with this attack speed so I'll stop thinking about this till I do.

 

10ms vs my 50ms? 0.01 vs 0.05 (my ping)_? Ignoring Flicker, I'm only slightly slower then the person on the left but I can see the difference.

Edited by Xellon
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There is nothing to be done, and it will stay like this in future games that will move further away from classical mmorpg genre.

Like someone else said, the more you have to interact, the better connection you will need. Look at games like CS:GO, Call of Duty, Street Fighter (Multiplayer), Naruto games (Multiplayer).

All of these games are even more ping dependent. And that is also the future of mmorpgs.

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8 hours ago, Nibaki said:

There is nothing to be done, and it will stay like this in future games that will move further away from classical mmorpg genre.

Like someone else said, the more you have to interact, the better connection you will need. Look at games like CS:GO, Call of Duty, Street Fighter (Multiplayer), Naruto games (Multiplayer).

All of these games are even more ping dependent. And that is also the future of mmorpgs.

that be great if everyone could play on the same ping....

the FPS allow for better client side stuff otherwise people on fps would be shooting through people* regularly.

and no there should be something done. allow clients to que up button presses is the only way to allow for competitive dps between people who have to play on 200ms and those who live near the server.

Edited by Schatten Katzen
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  • 1 year later...

There ARE things that can be done to improve the experience for players with higher latencies.

 

In a patch a few months ago I noticed that my flicker speed was much smoother and faster (BM) than previous to it. I think they have included things like XML editing for this to happen. So I'm pretty sure there are ways to improve the experience. And it should be important, since a lot of the player base actualy plays at 200+ ping. 

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