Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release

[Sycogenesis]

funny thing is when ppl called them out on censoring they said it wasn't gonna be censored lol

[Soulequilibrium]

51 minutes ago, Rahaya said:

They were given EN1 from the Korean devs. They got the original story already in English. There was very little translation work involved. Our client is currently using EN3. 

 

Do you happen to have any idea if it's possible to acquire the EN1 version and mod that into the game client side just like you can with voice packs? I honestly have little faith in NCSoft ever translating the game properly so might as well see what I can get done myself.

[Rahaya]

3 minutes ago, Soulequilibrium said:

 

Do you happen to have any idea if it's possible to acquire the EN1 version and mod that into the game client side just like you can with voice packs? I honestly have little faith in NCSoft ever translating the game properly so might as well see what I can get done myself.

I honestly have no idea what it would take to replace the text in the game. Right now you can just override audio files, but the language runs from the UI to the text files. I'm fairly certain you will have to remake the EN1, as I know of no place to download it.

[Enamour]

Holy walls of text! I won't be able to read this thread /o\

[Soulequilibrium]

1 hour ago, Rahaya said:

I honestly have no idea what it would take to replace the text in the game. Right now you can just override audio files, but the language runs from the UI to the text files. I'm fairly certain you will have to remake the EN1, as I know of no place to download it.

 

All right, thanks for the input.

[Rahaya]

33 minutes ago, Soulequilibrium said:

 

All right, thanks for the input.

It's certainly not impossible, as text file changes has been what makers of Eng patches for the other clients has been doing. It is XML based, if that helps. You can go to the Dojo and get in touch with Urbancowgurl or Rare Elites who did the CN Eng patch on how that works. None of the Eng patches are complete, unfortunately.

[KyoTanaka]

2 hours ago, Darkshana said:

Theres also the fact the EN version does not show how powerful and influential the two Factions are. In the original story it was extremely difficult to get into the Legion or the Order. Joining either faction meant a huge boost in a person's reputation.

 

Orphan at the Desert map. When you first meet the kid, he ran away from the refuge because he broke a valuable item of the wealthy hag who beaten him. When he first saw you he realize that you were a member of one of  the two great factions, and asked you if he have a chance of joining. The player gives a positive response and looked up to the main character. The orphan later goes around the village saying that a member of the great faction said he had potential. 

 

You later meet the hag with a kid (in fat spoiled stereotype kid) whining in front of her insisting on joining the great faction. When she over heard the main character conversation to the village mayor, she tries to convince you to let her son join hoping that he will become a influential member. After you declined saying the kids has no potential as a marital artist she becomes mad and demanded that you pay what the orphan broke (the wolf pelts). 

 

The story was completely changed and the two kid was removed as well.

 

Why did they change this?

Too confusing for Westerners.

[Deshiel]

Seems like that Eu and US version are treated the same.

[Fuz]

6 hours ago, Little J said:

I find it amusing and kinda sad that I had to experience a quest in the Lycandi Foothills were I led a 17 year old boy to his own death by the hands of his own biological father, all because that father raised him the wrong way, even though the boy was more than willing to talk to him and possibly work things out.

 

THAT quest made be feel like a real prick.

THAT quest made me feel sorry for my actions.

THAT quest in made me feel UNCOMFORTABLE.

Why does that quest get to stay in, but a quest about some perv snooping on some ladies needs to get removed?

Also doesn't help that a lot of the other quests in the game getting altered/removed seems so stupid and unnecessary.

Don't give them ideas, or they'll censor that quest too.

[Provois]

7 hours ago, Little J said:

I find it amusing and kinda sad that I had to experience a quest in the Lycandi Foothills were I led a 17 year old boy to his own death by the hands of his own biological father, all because that father raised him the wrong way, even though the boy was more than willing to talk to him and possibly work things out.

 

THAT quest made be feel like a real prick.

THAT quest made me feel sorry for my actions.

THAT quest in made me feel UNCOMFORTABLE.

Why does that quest get to stay in, but a quest about some perv snooping on some ladies needs to get removed?

Also doesn't help that a lot of the other quests in the game getting altered/removed seems so stupid and unnecessary.

Censorship is always Unnecessary and just a tool to force the opinion from the one who use censorship about everone else with the personal liking and intolerance against everyone with a different opinion as only reason.  Never heard a single case where censorship was necessary and secure someone for a real existing danger (only exception the censorship from faces/names etc. in News). And this is the reason why i'll never buy a singe NCoin until the censorship is removed because i refuse to support intolerant liar.

[Asuka]

6 hours ago, Deshiel said:

Seems like that Eu and US version are treated the same.

I was just about to say this. Having just read that "servant" change, it's obvious that it's a very US-centric "localization" (I think it's insulting and stupid for US players too, but I can kinda connect the dots, along with the peeping quest and whatnot). So, ok, if ncsoft is adamant into censoring things for US audience, based on US cultural conflicts, issues and whatnot (again, that shouldn't matter, but ok, IF they chose to do so, I'll let the US audience react).

BUT, then they went and blanketed those decisions to EU as well. And that's something that's not ok. People gave money to this company, people from all around "the west". Why are we being blanketed by US-centric localization decisions? Wouldn't make more sense to have the original material as a starting point and intervene where necessary? NOT intervene first, for US, then simply transfer that localization to EU. Because, here in EU, notion of slaves in works of fiction doesn't cause people to be uncomfortable or cause social tension or whatever (not that I think it does in US either, but ok, let's just say that it's more applicable there, if it was applicable), as first thought at mention of slavery is probably ancient greece or rome. Again, even if it wasn't, people aren't retarded and it's insulting to assume they are. They will consume material x, or they won't, based on their preferences.

 

That said, why am I mad at this blanketing localization?

 

Well, first of all, it's lazy and dishonest. If one country/region/whatever, has problems with certain parts of the story, quests, reading comprehension (npc name changes), why your starting point is that region? Again, I am not saying US people can't read lol, I am analyzing ncsoft's line of reasoning. Who on earth locks/censors/changes things first and then looks who should receive those locks? It's indefinitely more NORMAL to start from the vanilla original material and adapt AS NECESSARY. So, if it ISN'T NECESSARY for EU to endure those changes - then YOU DON'T APPLY THOSE CHANGES TO EU. If you want to work with the US crowd, WORK WITH THEM, don't make that version a master version ffs.

 

Second, money. A lot of people gave you money during the cbt (a lot of money, packs weren't exactly cheap) PRECISELY because they wanted you to have the money to meet the needs of players and deliver a QUALITY localization or whatever we should call it. What did those people get in turn?

-butchered game in various places

-I'll raise that butchering with nonsensical butchering (wtf, that example with two kinds and factions? Why? What is the reasoning behind that? Why is mayor stupid and main character even more stupid? There is literally - and I mean literally - nothing that should warrant those kinds of changes)

-we get unequal treatment. One region gets localization according to (what localization team sadly perceived as) their culture, other, just as big and just as lucrative region, gets content suited for the first region (?). What, english speaking people from EU didn't buy enough founders or what?

-I'll remind about majority (lol, majority - ALL of non-story non-trader npc's) npc's being dead silent, which isn't the case with other versions.

-I'll also remind about quality of the sound recording and voice acting - let's leave voice acting to subjectivity, it's still baffling to me that I can record half of the lines in better quality with a $1 mic. Literally (again, not virtually, but literally as in literally:) - which is unfathomable, really.

-I'll also remind about text not matching what is being spoken.

-I'll also remind about text in bubbles not matching other sources (as other written text). How hard is to perform a blanked msword-like action and sweep-change "ye harang" to "yehara" or whatever?

 

All this combined (and more!) means that the glorious, tough, hard and thorough localization (which I don't support in the first place, please give me the exotic material I couldn't enjoy before as I don't know the language, not some hamburger derivative) wasn't exactly that glorious, tough, hard and thorough. In fact, it was like they gave two emotionally unstable people $5000 and told them to change text, narrate, change quests as they see fit.

I don't see anything wrong with putting money in your pocket, but if you receive a lot of money and you do an UNBELIEVABLY sloppy job in return, that's not ok. You put EXCESS money in your pockets AFTER you made sure you did your job. If you made 100 000 000 000 000 bucks and expenses for what you had to do are 100 bucks, by all means, keep the rest, you earned it. But if you spend 20 bucks on those expenses, you are being dishonest.

 

Not to mention that the whole undertaking took like three years. I'd do a better job with my own funds or a kickstarter or whatever in three years. And yes, I know how these things go and what's involved with them and also I know the scope of the game itself.

 

The more this thread goes on and the more we find out about changes, what they are, why they were applied, the more we play the game and the more we get to know about other versions and their quality and quantity of features when it comes to these things, I am getting really disgusted at this whole thing. And in my two decades of interneting, I might have used "disgusted" once or twice, as I personally find the term very extreme.

[Rawrzori]

TLDR: If it shows skin or any kind of unmoral behavior asian games get butchered for western release. That almost (estimating) 70-90 % of the people that play this already read manga and watch anime that are 5000000 times worse is something they are forgetting i think. Beserk comes to mind and a few others i probably should not mention.

 

On top of that the rating is 18+ so that means no censorship is needed. I well asfar as i know they left the costumes untouched and instead of reading the sidequests because they are intresting is simply *click* *click* *click*. Shame though i love intresting unmoral storytelling.

[WarBaby2]

I still find it worse they actually changed story because of "potentially offensive subject matters"... I mean, nobody actually cares about virtual booty, but censoring narrative is, in essence, "old school" censoring of thought. That's unacceptable.

[Fuz]

On 2/9/2016 at 0:38 PM, WarBaby2 said:

I still find it worse they actually changed story because of "potentially offensive subject matters"... I mean, nobody actually cares about virtual booty, but censoring narrative is, in essence, "old school" censoring of thought. That's unacceptable.

Honestly, I don't think any sort of censorship of art (be that "high", "low" or whatever) is acceptable.

[UnitedStrafes]

So this dog was teaching me Kung Fu then this dominatrix came along and killed him, before planting a black Chia Pet on my back! I'm currently out for revenge!

 

Sound like a masterpiece? I don't think so. So if they changed some panty mission I could care less if the story as a whole is less than mediocre. Now if it were a good story...oh wait never mind I still wouldn't care.

[Asuka]

20 minutes ago, Fuz said:

Honestly, I don't think any sort of censorship of art (be that "high", "low" or whatever) is acceptable.

For me, it's the same thing really, censoring outfits, quests, story or whatever. I don't see a difference between them. The notion itself precedes which TYPE of content is changed. It's irrelevant whether it's a dress or a questline.

It's also irrelevant whether the original material is good or bad or atrocious or a masterpiece, just want to point that out, as it seems that the person above me missed the point of the whole thread.

[Profyrion]

Censorship is bad, mm-kay?

 

If part of your job makes you uncomfortable to the point that you'd seriously consider not doing it, then it's time to find a new line of work.

 

[Jayrune]

i sincerely wish they would go back and restore the original stories and meanings throughout the game, but i doubt they would consider it a profitable venture and thus it won't happen since here in America the dollar trumps everything, especially integrity.

[SinNoAria]

What sucks is that essentially the story in the first place essentially went: Oh, yeah, there are actual consequences for not doing the right thing. And somehow managed to get turned into a story that doesn't teach any morals.

[ShadowVlican]

they should stop catering to those who don't even play the game... *cricket* those opinions

[SinNoAria]

2 minutes ago, ShadowVlican said:

they should stop catering to those who don't even play the game... *cricket* those opinions

It is similar to that media news a few years back about an anime where they completely misrepresented the anime in order to make it look bad and get it removed. Most people reading the article never actually saw the anime and just believed what the media said. The media obviously either didn't watch it themselves or were just taking things out of context. A lot, if not most, of the people reading the article and raising an outcry against the anime probably never saw anime.

 

Example In-context: "If you hurt her, I will punch you."  Example out of context: "I will punch you."

 

As someone who does translate, I can honestly say that a lot of translations I see...  Are really bad and didn't bother with holding the 'spirit' of the original text, often not even a proper literal translation. Sometimes it isn't even the translator's fault, but sometimes...

 

Regardless, it is obviously silly to cater to people who aren't even interested.

[Thalothean]

It didnt matter that they altered the quest dialogue and quest overall that they mention in that article. The first thing that came to mind when I saw the quest NPC standing where he did was "peeper". Quite ridicolous that they choose to censor parts of the original game. I think this whole shielding of "harmful" things in the west is doing more harm than good.

[Asuka]

I'd like to add that it's sad that we even discuss those things. As if some imaginary piece has to comply to some imaginary standard of morality to basically exist among a mature populace. 

 

Let's say that that imaginary anime WAS exactly about the "I'll punch you" and that was the full context. That should be completely irrelevant. If one wants to enjoy the xyz material, let them. I understand when it's about kids tv program or something, you will look to adapt or change things or outright reject shows that have grey areas or are immoral or might be misconstrued by a child as such etc.

But protecting ME from someone's expression? That's a bit far. It's a bit insulting, really. Implying we can't differentiate between reality and fantasy and that we are unable to cope with something that isn't morally cliche'd.

 

Even if that anime or BnS or whatever was made as a sociopath simulator and is about punching people for no reason... it's fantasy and it's one's imaginary expression. If one wants to enjoy it, there's no problem.

Especially when it's as hypocritical as this. I mean, peeping or whatever is "problematic" for "western audience". But killing ambivalent people (as factions aren't presented as good or bad and even if they were, we have the option to freely join them) isn't. Give me a break, please.

I mean, ok, I am against censoring and "adapting" material in order to water it down and treat people like small children (I say small because when I was a teen or even preteen, for example, I got access to everything and state regarded me as "stable" enough for that). But if you are already doing it, why be so randomly selective about it lol? I killed a lot of animals and took their bladders away from them, and I did that in cold blood with a melee weapon. I think that's certainly problematic in the west as well? I mean, if we are observing reality and checking if we should alter some fantasy material, that should be among the first things changed. I mean, peeping, sure, problematic, but I imagine somebody goes around with an axe, dismembering stray dogs for medicine... that is even more problematic if happened in reality.

 

I mean, I am still surprised, even after years of this crap, that there's this notion that I should be protected or, even worse, GUIDED morally when it comes to art/entertainment FOR ADULTS. As if I can't guide myself. I probably wouldn't be free or even alive if I wasn't able to comply and internalize the moral codex of my society. It's unfathomable to see the line of reasoning behind these kinds of things.

 

Granted, I am in mid-europe, so I can, thankfully, still read/buy what I want, I can still sit on the bench in the park while children are playing or even talk to them (gasp!), I can court a woman without her being mad at me or whatnot. How long will this last. we'll see. But, I can't help but imagine US as some very frightful place where people slowly become either emotionally-driven ideologues or grim doomsayers. I hoep that's not the case, but that's what I've gathered from the net at least (and from some friends who toured across the US). So, I think that we in europe have it slightly better (excluding perhaps Sweden?).

This is a bit tangential, but I think it's important. People are starting to embrace this stuff. As in, this thread, for example, already isn't wholly about "why changing things", but "well, things that are changed weren't exactly dangerous" - as if they could be or as if they should be ever regarded as possibly dangerous in the first place. We ourselves are beginning to spin the point and justify that infamous quest ("he got served in the end", "it's poetic justice" etc) instead of simply complaining about the policy of changing things, period.

 

And I am guilty of that too. Yesterday I saw some old guy talking to a kid in the park (kid's mother was near as well) and in the first half a second I was like "omg why does he do that omg" and then I came to my senses and I was like "lol kids are awesome, I've seen billions of people talk to them because they are awesome throughout my life" - but still, the immediate response triggered was "oh noez, old dude, park, kid, no good". I am being brainwashed as we speak lol.

 

 

 

[SinNoAria]

20 minutes ago, Asuka said:

I'd like to add that it's sad that we even discuss those things. As if some imaginary piece has to comply to some imaginary standard of morality to basically exist among a mature populace. 

 

Let's say that that imaginary anime WAS exactly about the "I'll punch you" and that was the full context. That should be completely irrelevant. If one wants to enjoy the xyz material, let them. I understand when it's about kids tv program or something, you will look to adapt or change things or outright reject shows that have grey areas or are immoral or might be misconstrued by a child as such etc.

But protecting ME from someone's expression? That's a bit far. It's a bit insulting, really. Implying we can't differentiate between reality and fantasy and that we are unable to cope with something that isn't morally cliche'd.

 

Even if that anime or BnS or whatever was made as a sociopath simulator and is about punching people for no reason... it's fantasy and it's one's imaginary expression. If one wants to enjoy it, there's no problem.

Especially when it's as hypocritical as this. I mean, peeping or whatever is "problematic" for "western audience". But killing ambivalent people (as factions aren't presented as good or bad and even if they were, we have the option to freely join them) isn't. Give me a break, please.

I mean, ok, I am against censoring and "adapting" material in order to water it down and treat people like small children (I say small because when I was a teen or even preteen, for example, I got access to everything and state regarded me as "stable" enough for that). But if you are already doing it, why be so randomly selective about it lol? I killed a lot of animals and took their bladders away from them, and I did that in cold blood with a melee weapon. I think that's certainly problematic in the west as well? I mean, if we are observing reality and checking if we should alter some fantasy material, that should be among the first things changed. I mean, peeping, sure, problematic, but I imagine somebody goes around with an axe, dismembering stray dogs for medicine... that is even more problematic if happened in reality.

 

 

 

Obviously the problem was that the questline had a moral story behind it while murdering stray dogs does not convey any morals.

[Asuka]

 

Neither conveys anything, except things you gather from it yourself. This game isn't a fable. And even if it was, it's for grown ups. It's not part of a preschool curriculum or a tv show for kids or something.

 

And even if they were there for the sake of moral guidance, that is exactly what I am talking about in that post. That it shouldn't be considered. Especially when it's as non-problematic as the quest in question. And here I go again, falling into the trap of analyzing the content removed, instead of focusing on the fact of removal itself.