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Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release


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On 1/28/2016 at 7:40 PM, Evangelite said:

I know this sounds really.....hypocritical, but I can understand china considering they have extremely strict laws in place on certain issues. I wish that wasn't the case as I don't believe anything should be censored for those faint of heart. But in China's case I'm assuming it had to do with some sort of law that kept them from bringing it into china if they didn't change it.

No, China censoring sexuality isn't because of religion and how one's perception of it.

 

They just don't want people to get aroused and start going around raping other people due to lack of self-control and is in a populated nation that's extremely overcrowded.

Odd thing is, it happens, regardless of censorship or not.

 

I mean look at the Syrian refugee crisis and then look at the UK when they 'let' the floodgates open to receive any refugees, and end up increasing public *cricket* crimes by tenfold.

 

It's not censorship that causes a ill effect, and it's not sexuality that causes problems. It's cultures that has no rational or logical reasoning to their actions. Bad cultures exist, and they are everywhere.

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4 minutes ago, KaiserxKai said:

It's not censorship that causes a ill effect, and it's not sexuality that causes problems. It's cultures that has no rational or logical reasoning to their actions. Bad cultures exist, and they are everywhere.

Yup, and some of them have only started to degrade in the last couple of years...

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On ‎27‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 0:24 PM, Alukah said:

 

When I got to the time travel part in cbt I was very upset, not because there was a change (at that time I didn't know they changed it) but because it was extremely confusing, it felt like a plot hole when I went from the past to the present with no explanation,

 

It is true, at some point I didn't knew who am I and if I returned back from past time or not. It was... wut? I'm back??? Or not?

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1 hour ago, Fuz said:

Who's the character on the header? Haven't seen her in game.

She's not in game yet, its well after the current storyline with Jinsoyun, which we haven't even gotten to the end of yet, google says her name is Julia but who knows what it'll be when it comes here, shes associated with the Jade Snow Palace dungeon but that's all I know about her.

 

As far as that scholar guy, admittedly I skipped all his quest text, between the way he looked and the things he had me do I figured he was just a pervert and moved on.

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You know part of this I believe stems from the "high art/low art" false dichotomy- "high art" (or Art with a capital A, as people sometimes call it) is seen as "important", and treated with a bit of reverence-think Shakespeare, the Bible, Rembrandt, Beethoven, Dostoevsky, etc.; whereas "low art" is seen as "filler material sold for pure entertainment/diversion": pop music, comic books, television shows, and the like, and is "bastardized" frequently, as if the content and style of its original presentation was totally inconsequential (think Hollywood re-makes, for example).

 

With these "two" types of art, authorship is viewed differently-in "high art" authorship is seen as belonging to the Artist, and every nuance, flaw, and glint of brilliance is seen as belonging to the artist's vision. On the other hand, with "low art" authorship is attributed to the OWNER-the movie studio, record label, publishing house, and so on, and the artistic content is down-played in favor of "box office", or "chart position" or "stand sales".

 

Video games are currently viewed as "low art", and so the owner (in this case NCSoft) does things one would NEVER consider with "high art", in this case, cheapen the style of the original Korean story to suit what they feel is "more appealing" to western gamers. A lot of anime faces a similar problem-what is special about it in the original can be totally ruined when it is repackaged as a "Saturday morning cartoon" for the United States.

 

The best video game studios are starting to realize that this high/low art distinction isn't actually real-Shakespeare was originally just cheap evening entertainment, and many science fiction pulp authors are now recognized as some of the mid-20th-century's best writers, period. So, for example, companies like (a famous Polish one I will not name that features a famous gruff white-haired anti-hero) and (another North American company, famous for wardens and dragons, and a distinct social justice warrior ethic) are taking pains to stay faithful to their artistic vision "as authored", and not just "slaves to the money" (with some humorous exceptions, of course).

 

Unfortunately, NCSoft is not among these forward-looking software distributors. While there is nothing wrong, in and of itself, with seeking to maximize one's financial return on an investment such as releasing a North American localization of a Korean game, NCSoft could have done better. And the disappointment some players now feel, cannot be undone.

 

Tl;dr version-NCSoft, the North American market is surprisingly sophisticated, and sensitive to nuances of quality, especially with respect to characterization, and emotional depth of story. Your failure to give that its due, makes the greed under your mask of showmanship start showing (and you would have made more money had you tired a little harder-word gets around, you know?).

 

P.S. - I *know* localization is difficult, but this particular one seems to be a bit rushed and sub-standard.

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I am not sure about the cause/effect with that dichotomy when it comes to this particular matter. I don't think it's high/low art per se, but rather present/legacy art and also a big part belongs to working for clients.

 

In other words, Shakespeare, Leonardo etc, all of them, when they did client work, did revisions on a regular basis. That's normal and you do that regardless of your prowess or anything. The client MIGHT restrain him/herself on a personal level because he doesn't want to "touch your persona" if you are highly valued artist, but his right to change things within his IP remains and many do exercise it to the max. But even the mentioned restrain stems more from the notion of believing you as a highly valued artist know better than the notion that you are "sacred" in any way. So, again, it's pretty calculative in nature.

Of course, when clients aren't involved, you are your own boss and censor, so you do as you please.

 

As for the present/legacy notion, I wanted to point out that a big part of no-no when it comes to Shakespeares, Leonardos, Dostoevskis etc, is the historical angle of their legacy. In other words, let's say that Shakespeare was like the worst writer ever. Meddling with his work now would still be a no-no, because of historical significance. If nothing, we could learn from his work how writing was at an atrocious level in that period or something. A large part of why classics are classics is because of that notion.

 

Now, with modern artists, especially when hired by clients, it's pretty much the same as it ever was. If I hired Shakespeare back then and wanted him to change parts, I'd tell him to and he would do just that, because he is working for me. I could opt not to and leave him be, but that's up to me to decide.

 

To me, the thing that sticks out with Blade and Soul, is more about the "currency" of the piece being altered, than about high/low notion. To explain what I mean - During the creation process of blade and soul, I am sure (as in, I can promptly bet lives of my family on it, as I work in the same field:) ) that there were billions of revisions. For various reasons. Now, when that process is done (at least when it pertains to certain points, I am not saying about the franchise as a whole, which is far from being over), we essentially got "the piece" as is. It went through iterations, changes etc. and that's all fine, but now, now we are talking about "history" - a very recent one, but still. There's a point when a present client work "transforms" into that "high art rock solid legacy type piece":) And that point was probably when BnS was released for the first time.

Basically, what I'm saying is - Shakespeares aren't excluded from revisions and such. As long as they are hired (and their contract reflects it of course - which is the case 100% of the time) their work will get revisions, rewrites, deletions etc. But when it is finished, it becomes "a piece". And yes, a client who owns the IP can decide even at a much later date to change it. But that very rarely happens. Because it's unnecessary and leads nowhere.

There is no difference in working for clients when it comes to an aspiring writer and Dostoevsky. Aside from level of the publisher, client etc. They all do revisions begrudgingly when asked and that's it.

 

BUT, as I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, it's one thing revising Anna Karenina at the time of writing (regardless of whether there were revisions or not, I don't remember about that novel in particular) by client/employer, but it is a whole different thing to revise it NOW and make her go to nascar, as I've jokingly mentioned. It's nonsensical. It unnecessarily changes the piece with no need to. One of the values of that piece is the fact that the audience can experience the original notion - whether that notion has been tampered with at the time of creation or not. We got the final piece and that's it. Now we want to read it or analyze it or whatever and the last thing we want is for it to be revisioned again and again until completely void of any original intent or form.

Now, that might be a bit harder to apply mentally to BnS, but it's really just the time that has passed that presents as that mental hurdle. And if we go past that and deal only with whether the piece is finished or not, published, writers/artist/etc have been let go or are working on another project, people have already consumed it (a very important point, that one) en masse etc, we see that there is really no need to butcher and adapt and revise the piece even further and after so much time (no, not as much time as with Anna Karenina obviously, but it's still very much so after the fact).

 

Now, all this doesn't have anything to do with legal issues, of course. The owner of the IP can do whatever they want, period. It's just that there's no need for it whatsoever and it derails from an original notion - which was a group effort yes and which was revisioned when was in the making yes, but regardless of that. This is a very late unnecessary, inefficient, badly done, costly (!) undertaking which makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes no sense because there's nothing to adapt - and there's NO ONE to adapt to. I can vouch than 99.99% of potential BnS players want to experience the original. Most of them were hyped for western release PRECISELY because of that. And like 80% of them would be put off by these practices. Will NCsoft lure someone outside that demographic? Sure, all four of them. And out of those four, three will still wonder why this asian martial arts game has funny names, horrible VA etc. They won't even need the original to make a comparison.

 

Not to mention that every single "cultural adaptation change" is:

-of low quality

-INSULTINGLY patronizing (this may be the biggest one for me, I can't believe that they alter things based on their potential customer having iq 60, suffering from extreme debilitating ptsd and being unable to process the simplest information)

-hypocritical (yes, by all means apply for numerous factions and murder AMBIGUOUS PEOPLE - so no, there's no "evul" argument here - but stealing panties? Oh no you din't. On top of that - not that it matters but still - the dude gets poetic justice'd)

-unnecessary

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On 27/1/2016 at 2:40 AM, BasiliskEye said:

Then go back to the Chinese version with the shitty machine translations and costumes that disappear after a month.

We already know the *cricket* story, what does it matter what they did with the localization, other then, it's the internet we must cry about everything on it?

 

Besides the time travel thing at the beginning of act 3 came completely out of nowhere and is never mentioned again in the original version.

We already know the story? You maybe, but I for example only know the one from this westernized version, with some points that don't make much sense, like how you physically get to present moonwater playing from divining Madun's past. Now learning that the story, which I like and thought could've been developed better, is actually in this state because they decided for me that i couldn't stand some of the original content, well I'm actually pretty pissed, I want the story, the original one, not some half assed softened reboot.

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On 27/1/2016 at 5:53 AM, PFunDaddy said:

Something people have to understand, especially with regards to the censorship issue, is that these sorts of plotlines involving sexism, or racism, or homophobia ARE controversial in Western countries, and some developers don't want that controversy to dominate discussion of the game, and would rather have their game be a game than a front for discussing racy topics.

 

If you could have run around in lingerie, for example, a third of people would think it was funny, a third would get nosebleeds because their life doesn't have enough sexual stimulation, and a third would get offended or put off because of the inherent gender imbalance in underwear (it's hard to argue that a jockstrap commands quite as much attention as a black lace undergarment thing), or because they have some bizarre aversion to the human body. They made the choice to get rid of these things that could be topics for  discussion simply because it would attract a kind of attention that they don't want.

 

At the end of the day, you can whine all you want about how they changed the storyline. They won't care at all because you're still giving them money AND they don't have to deal with a billion offended emails about social hot topics every day.

Well, this clarifies my line of action then: any money I thought I could give for this game won't be given, and maybe I'll even bother to send my small part of the billions of offended emails required; for the time being I'll even move to the pirated russian server so I can enjoy the actual story, since I don't know Korean and even with a patch I couldn't play on their servers because of the insane ping.

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Well, we need to think about the scandal regarding http://www.videogamer.com/pc/gta_san_andreas/news/gta_sex_scandal.html
 and already consider as is what is the rating of the game, and what would be rating of the game without the alteration.  The grand issue here would be that the parents/guardians have a right to a degree of information/access to determine if various entertainment is suitable or unsuitable.  Do consider, that there are people who are compelled to consider all sorts of demographics and make various decisions or take choices to assure that various legal, social, and moral responsibilities are fulfilled, not mention order.

 

If people are truly bothered by the alteration there is the choice of organizing a petition among adults to implement mature audience version/option.

 

If there are any adults in this conversation, check this out.

 

 

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They should have given the original contents a shot before starting cover things up without second thought. Considering the fanbase of this game I doubt people would have been offended. This is also one of those games where the biggest source of income comes from fans that love the game for what it was, but they insist on changing it to try to appeal more to the new players which most wouldn't spent a dime in this game. Those that complain about the censorship pretty much all brought a founder pack while the audience their censorship is trying to appeal still complains about shit like mails need you to spent at least one dollar in a game that's practically given to you for free. Then again they probably think "these idiots already buys our stuff, no need to care about them".

 

try to set foot on two different boat the. You are fated to fall into the water.

 

if they had the original content then there's a serious complaint then it's far more justified to change it, but these guys didn't even give it a chance instantly deeming the contents too inappropriate. In a free democratic country we see a game censored more than China, who only censored full on nudity to drop the rating to teens.

 

Thats another thing. All of the players of this game is over 18. In a country where a person knows more about the anatomy of the opposite gender than their own at the age of 14 WHO THE FK IS THIS GAME OFFENDING?! And if their oversenstive mind is offended by what the game was why the hell play it? If a person is offended by a fighting anime game for its use of violence and anime look the why is the idiot playing the game that's clearly not for him?!

 

I've seen plenty of horrible, inappropriate and gory shit from Western media, and the things in this game is no where near as bad. So the excuse they give don't remotely convince me that they changed it for vanity sake. The West team changed it because they didn't like it, and no shit was given to the players.

 

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10 hours ago, Darkshana said:

 

I've seen plenty of horrible, inappropriate and gory shit from Western media, and the things in this game is no where near as bad. So the excuse they give don't remotely convince me that they changed it for vanity sake. The West team changed it because they didn't like it, and no shit was given to the players.

 

Worse than that, I think. From conversation with LastWriterStanding, it seemed to me that they were specifically looking for flaws in the story. To the point of overthinking or ignoring context in order to create those flaws in the original story. Flaws that they can then fix! It really felt like they just wanted their own mark on the story for the resume, not that the story needed any of the alterations.

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5 minutes ago, Rahaya said:

Worse than that, I think. From conversation with LastWriterStanding, it seemed to me that they were specifically looking for flaws in the story. To the point of overthinking or ignoring context in order to create those flaws in the original story. Flaws that they can then fix! It really felt like they just wanted their own mark on the story for the resume, not that the story needed any of the alterations.

Greed is possible, but we need to explore the original without alteration and compare the two, or at least a closer version to the original, because there is translation work involved.

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Just now, Soher said:

Greed is possible, but we need to explore the original without alteration and compare the two, or at least a closer version to the original, because there is translation work involved.

They were given EN1 from the Korean devs. They got the original story already in English. There was very little translation work involved. Our client is currently using EN3. 

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I find it amusing and kinda sad that I had to experience a quest in the Lycandi Foothills were I led a 17 year old boy to his own death by the hands of his own biological father, all because that father raised him the wrong way, even though the boy was more than willing to talk to him and possibly work things out.

 

THAT quest made be feel like a real prick.

THAT quest made me feel sorry for my actions.

THAT quest in made me feel UNCOMFORTABLE.


Why does that quest get to stay in, but a quest about some perv snooping on some ladies needs to get removed?

Also doesn't help that a lot of the other quests in the game getting altered/removed seems so stupid and unnecessary.

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I think I found another example censorship and poor translation. In the Necropolis, you talk to a ghost who does not remember his identify and you eventually find out he was a slave who died during the incident years ago. There were words missing letters (for example the left out a T in the), and the story has been changed as well. In the EN version the ghost was a "indentured servant" of the stratus family and the ghost says that he got scared and jumped into the "grain box" to hide, in addition he calls himself a coward.

 

But in the original story he was being traded as a slave and he was locked in the box so it can be smuggled away disguised as grain. He never had a chance to get out of the box because of the incident so he was left for dead. This if furthur supported by the fact you can open one of four different box meaning hes not the only person.

 

For one thing Asian Royal Family (China for example) don't hold indentured servant. They will hire people (either by force or choice) for life and let them go when they want to. Indentured servant in Asian are common for merchants, wealthy or nobles.

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3 minutes ago, Little J said:

I find it amusing and kinda sad that I had to experience a quest in the Lycandi Foothills were I led a 17 year old boy to his own death by the hands of his own biological father, all because that father raised him the wrong way, even though the boy was more than willing to talk to him and possibly work things out.

 

THAT quest made be feel like a real prick.

THAT quest made me feel sorry for my action.

THAT quest in made me feel UNCOMFORTABLE.


Why does that quest get to stay in, but a quest about some perv snooping on some ladies needs to get removed?

 

IKR, that a child abuse! This quest clearly promotes domestic violence and immediately needs a censorship. Where are SJWs when we "need" them?

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Theres also the fact the EN version does not show how powerful and influential the two Factions are. In the original story it was extremely difficult to get into the Legion or the Order. Joining either faction meant a huge boost in a person's reputation.

 

Orphan at the Desert map. When you first meet the kid, he ran away from the refuge because he broke a valuable item of the wealthy hag who beaten him. When he first saw you he realize that you were a member of one of  the two great factions, and asked you if he have a chance of joining. The player gives a positive response and looked up to the main character. The orphan later goes around the village saying that a member of the great faction said he had potential. 

 

You later meet the hag with a kid (in fat spoiled stereotype kid) whining in front of her insisting on joining the great faction. When she over heard the main character conversation to the village mayor, she tries to convince you to let her son join hoping that he will become a influential member. After you declined saying the kids has no potential as a marital artist she becomes mad and demanded that you pay what the orphan broke (the wolf pelts). 

 

The story was completely changed and the two kid was removed as well.

 

Why did they change this?

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