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Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release


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3 minutes ago, Alukah said:

Hyperbole.

 

Still proves the point doesn't it? 

The localization team can change whatever they don't like and crap on the original work.

In other words look at the dragon ball movie thats also "localization" and its shit.

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5 hours ago, illusiondoll#28 said:

 

P.S. WTH there was a time travel arc in this story; where the hell is it? I want to see it... ._.

Just before travelling to moonwater it is said that the Dragon Stream to there is considerably unstable. Then on the cinematic it shows how the PC is caught on a wormhole like thing while using it and the PC is sent back in time 16 years.

 

On that time the Lynn village is under atack by the Empire and the PC tries to help them. By doing so he manages to save a very young Ilksim and witness her mother death, which is said from her that is a single mother, and that she, the major and Iksanum had a conversation during a night on which she cried (unlike on NA/EU version where it is said that she cried and HUGGED Iksanum, which in fact she doesnt to give the situation more ambiguity).

 

After leaving the boy with the Major, he notices that the PC aura is strange and realizes that the PC is not from this time axis and must go back to his/her own time. Later after helping the sister of another Lynn fella, the PC manages to reach the village dragon stream place which has been altered by the empire so the villagers didnt escape using it.

 

Then she appears Yin Seo, ask the villagers about Iksanum and kills them after they dont have anything useful. Then she notices that the PC has the black rose wound but she didnt recognize him/her. Then she realizes that the PC is from the future and seems amused by it calling it "Coincidence, miracle or fate" and thats the reason the PC survives the encounter.

 

Then a cinematic on which  that the PC manages to go back to his/her time falling down on soldiers that are about to kill a now grown Ilksim. Then the PC wakes up on the Major house and the Major recognice the PC and Ilksim says his thanks for saving him 16 years ago.

 

So basically no Madun divination bullshit.

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15 minutes ago, iShirow said:

 Might be, but they might as well written that much when it came to the time travel part of the story. It was severely disjointed and totally unnecessary to change, however, it was done due to a certain writer's preference.

 

When I got to the time travel part in cbt I was very upset, not because there was a change (at that time I didn't know they changed it) but because it was extremely confusing, it felt like a plot hole when I went from the past to the present with no explanation, they did a terrible job editing that part of the story and it bothered me the whole time I spent in Moonwater Plains all the way to 45.

 

12 minutes ago, Pangu said:

 

Still proves the point doesn't it? 

The localization team can change whatever they don't like and crap on the original work.

In other words look at the dragon ball movie thats also "localization" and its shit.

 

No, it doesn't prove anything, they had a reason to change it, I don't see how "we are doomed" could cause problems in the west, it's a ridiculous example.

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I've read around a bit, and while I'm not going in to any arguments, I do have questions on what has changed.

 

In the first post in the link it shows lingerie being changed in to what we have now. And I don't mind that, although it's a personal opinion, but what we have now made it slightly easier for me to create the character I wanted. But I also noticed the Asian version character is in different poses, was that changed too? Does our version have different character poses from the Asian version?

 

What else are we missing out on? 

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@Bearil That also explains why your character is suddenly transported to another continent without explanation... I guess the time-travel ark was thought to be "too complicated" for western audiences. Personally, I find that a little insulting...

 

Also, on the topic of "changing misogynistic, racist, etc." content: In a free, adult society, such changes should not be needed, because you should trust an adult audience to be able to handle stuff like that! What are we talking about here?

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1 hour ago, Evangelite said:

Nah, I just think that me and most of the other people who are having this problem will keep our money we would have spent otherwise in our pockets. and by all the responses I see I'm pretty sure quite a few people are going to follow suit.

Almost every implementation has been flawed.  I've refunded $125 Master pack and after today, if I can't log in due to not paying their log in tax, I'll just spend my time somewhere else.  We argued these points before launch, now the product isn't going to change, so we're all stuck with what's available.  I hope this game and NC does well, they'll just do it without monetary support from me.

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3 minutes ago, Alukah said:

 

When I got to the time travel part in cbt I was very upset, not because there was a change (at that time I didn't know they changed it) but because it was extremely confusing, it felt like a plot hole when I went from the past to the present with no explanation, they did a terrible job editing that part of the story and it bothered me the whole time I spent in Moonwater Plains all the way to 45.

 

 

No, it doesn't prove anything, they had a reason to change it, I don't see how "we are doomed" could cause problems in the west, it's a ridiculous example.

And that is the issue most of us in this thread are having, even after all the editing they did, it did not fix anything at all. It just made it more confusing and will only create more plot holes. "We are doomed" might not cause problems in any region, but neither did the time travel part; and, yet, it was changed.

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I'm playing with Japanese voice overs, and i must say that the voice and text doesn't match most of the time. Minus the censorship the texts in English are mostly heroic while the Japanese voice overs are mostly daily chitchat, or more emotional, and some of the changes in translations i just don't understand. Like this one bot in a quest line that lost his father and his father's best friend looking after him now; the boy goes on in English like how other kids have their dads playing with them and that his dad never has time for him when he's clearly stated to be dead, while on the Japanese he's crying that his dad is gone to where his mom is. Why change stuff like that at all, what's so wrong about a boy crying for his deceased father.

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Just now, Kohe said:

I'm playing with Japanese voice overs, and i must say that the voice and text doesn't match most of the time. Minus the censorship the texts in English are mostly heroic while the Japanese voice overs are mostly daily chitchat, or more emotional, and some of the changes in translations i just don't understand. Like this one bot in a quest line that lost his father and his father's best friend looking after him now; the boy goes on in English like how other kids have their dads playing with them and that his dad never has time for him when he's clearly stated to be dead, while on the Japanese he's crying that his dad is gone to where his mom is. Why change stuff like that at all, what's so wrong about a boy crying for his deceased father.

On that quest the boy is basically depressed and crying over his father death and his now adoptive father ask the PC if he/she could help him . The Father's boy was probably a martial artist and when the boy was sad he used chi to charge a ballon so that if fly by itself, but the adoptive father is unable to do so.

 

After the PC manages to do it the boy is astounded, remembering how his father often do it when he was sad, and he ends saying "Father i will not cry anymore" holding his tears.

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Can't seem to multi-quote properly...

 

@Evangelite I'm not answering it because it's a ridiculous example, you cannot draw a comparison between that guy's hyperbole and the change made to the story, they had a reason for that change, and they don't need to validate it with you.

 

@iShirow I personally don't complain about it being changed, but the fact that they did a terrible job at it, still in the cutscene when you enter the Mayor's house he recognizes you, despite the current version being that you didn't time travel, just projected through Madun, that's one big plot hole they didn't bother to patch.

 

In the end, changes will happen even in the Korean version, to the point of retcon.

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8 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

@Bearil That also explains why your character is suddenly transported to another continent without explanation... I guess the time-travel ark was thought to be "too complicated" for western audiences. Personally, I find that a little insulting...

 

Also, on the topic of "changing misogynistic, racist, etc." content: In a free, adult society, such changes should not be needed, because you should trust an adult audience to be able to handle stuff like that! What are we talking about here?

 

4 minutes ago, Kohe said:

I'm playing with Japanese voice overs, and i must say that the voice and text doesn't match most of the time. Minus the censorship the texts in English are mostly heroic while the Japanese voice overs are mostly daily chitchat, or more emotional, and some of the changes in translations i just don't understand. Like this one bot in a quest line that lost his father and his father's best friend looking after him now; the boy goes on in English like how other kids have their dads playing with them and that his dad never has time for him when he's clearly stated to be dead, while on the Japanese he's crying that his dad is gone to where his mom is. Why change stuff like that at all, what's so wrong about a boy crying for his deceased father.

 

That is the part that I find somewhat amusing when it comes to all of this heavy editing. Throughout certain parts of the game there are certain recurring themes like how certain characters show condescension towards women, but in the end the women end up being shown in a better light because of it.

 

One is with the pottery girl from Cinderlands where you end up breaking her pots and she ends up making better ones showing she is fit to become the next leader. Another one that I can think of the top of my head is the Lycadi Huntress. The other tribe didn't like her as the leader since she was female but she ended up saving them.

While these changes might be small and inconsequential, it really shows a bit of depth and shows those two women in a better light than what they wrote.       

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Just now, ghost010 said:

Even if there was a legitimate reason to censor the quests, there was no freaking reason to change the base outfit.

And even those reasons wont outweigh the "we wont censor we keep it true to the original" claim.
Nuf said.

Spot on, a lie is a lie.

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58 minutes ago, Alukah said:

Can't seem to multi-quote properly...

 

@Evangelite I'm not answering it because it's a ridiculous example, you cannot draw a comparison between that guy's hyperbole and the change made to the story, they had a reason for that change, and they don't need to validate it with you.

 

@iShirow I personally don't complain about it being changed, but the fact that they did a terrible job at it, still in the cutscene when you enter the Mayor's house he recognizes you, despite the current version being that you didn't time travel, just projected through Madun, that's one big plot hole they didn't bother to patch.

 

In the end, changes will happen even in the Korean version, to the point of retcon.

 

Well you might say they have a reason, but for what reason did they have to change the time travel part other than just personal preference? If it was so confusing why was it so easily summarized by Bearil (mind you he summed it up so well I couldn't add anything myself.)

 

At least we both agree that that section of the story was badly handled, but they wouldn't need to patch anything at all if they had gone with the original story. 

 

And yea, things will change even the original KR story...but doesn't mean that because they changed from canon in KR, they are free to change everything they like in the Western version.

 

Once again NCSoft is looking for feedback on this so fill those in-game surveys and hopefully the next few arcs won't change so drastically.

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What irks me the most: I really thought we finally had departed the horrible "westernization" hackjobs common in anime in the 80ies and 90ies (*cough* Sabre Rider *cough*). Back then the translators had no understanding or respect for the source material, so all they had to do was make it digestible for a clueless market. Today, however, we live in a different world, and we really should be beyond that kind of "westernization", no matter the reasons behind it...

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Leaving plot holes in an already established story is a major issue in any format be it game or not. The easiest solution they could have had was standing by the original and translating it straight to the point without tinting the message. This game IS about moral choices and the good and the bad that come with them. You're not stopped from playing by skipping side-quests and near the end of the Lvl.50 road you do have to choose whether to be Good or Evil (4 years-old spoilers!) and it was pretty apparent the moment you stepped on your level 20-ies and beating up are or aren't baddies/villagers. While I can understand it was to avoid troublesome things like activist lawsuits, I find it really silly to take out those poses/animations that aren't really anything new considering what's showing on present television shows. I never even realized there were removed stuff like that until I saw that article, BUT, I did find myself thinking while making a female Gon that "Why is this female Gon over-acting a mismatched male set of poses? It looks stupid" prior to knowing that fact. Now I know what felt wrong back then.

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29 minutes ago, ghost010 said:

Even if there was a legitimate reason to censor the quests, there was no freaking reason to change the base outfit.

And even those reasons wont outweigh the "we wont censor we keep it true to the original" claim.
Nuf said.

They changed the underwear because people complained that the default ones made it difficult to see the effect of the midriff sliders when creating characters. The underwear is still in game, but not as a a default outfit.

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This is super old. it has been posted months ago.

 

the person who was posting the article has no idea what he was talking about. costumes are not censored and the only thing changed is just a bunch of texts. 

 

seriously who really cares about such trivial things?

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25 minutes ago, TakunDes said:

 

seriously who really cares about such trivial things?

May sound surprising but some people do. Theres a reason why even games like Street Fighter have a plot and also quite a bit of fans who dig all the lore they can.

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7 hours ago, CorrosionWhite said:

I equate this to an R rated movie having scenes cut to fall into the PG13 bracket to reach a wider audience.  I am also pretty sure NCSoft didn't want BnS to be the next poster child for another Family Entertainment Protection Act. Which was probably on their minds when they did the localization. However, and like the rest of you, I can only speculate as to why they made the changes they did.  Having not played any other versions of the game I can say I didn't even notice they'd changed anything.  

 

Also, people should bear in mind that B&S went from an 18+ rating to a 15+ rating in Korea just by changing the way blood looked, in order to make it more accessible as an e-sport (i.e., to reach a wider audience), and what got B&S a 17+ rating under the ESRB (and 16+ under the PEGI) is more likely the visual elements, not the story itself.  While the visual elements weren't changed, the changes in the story and side quests were done in order to reach a wider audience than the game was originally created for. I mean, people can disagree about the quality of the localization and what changes were and weren't necessary, but NCSoft wants to make money off this game, and the localization staff most likely felt that leaving some elements as they were would have had a more negative effect than changing them would, as far as B&S's potential to reach the market NCSoft wants it to reach goes.

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2 hours ago, Alukah said:

When I got to the time travel part in cbt I was very upset, not because there was a change (at that time I didn't know they changed it) but because it was extremely confusing, it felt like a plot hole when I went from the past to the present with no explanation

 

That right there is reason enough why localization teams shouldn't fiddle with the story.

They changed shit that doesn't need to be changed and voila story becomes shit with plotholes and very confusing.

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6 hours ago, Saima said:

 

I'm not sure how ratings work for you guys but if a game is rated M, then why should you assume that kids are playing it? I know everyone buys their kids GTA V blabla but that's their own decision and damm them for not getting informed about it. I only played a bit of the other Version but its definitely better. Dialogues makes sense instead of being nonsensical and hipster. I feel my IQ dropping by playing this version -_-  

Following movie ref, this is a movie where the rest of the world give it 90% rating where as the US only gives it 60%. Does that mean the US have better taste than the rest of the world? No, it just means that the US version only deserve 60%. Its because people know its better that they speak up about it. Obviously people who don't know wouldn't notice the dumb down, they think its only worth 60% in the first place and don't raise a fuzz.  

Well, let's not pretend that anyone is naive enough to believe that kids aren't playing this game despite whatever rating it might have.  I mean.. come on now.  But that wasn't even my point. Do I think the game, its creators, players, ect, should be censored if they do, no.  But NCSoft West encompasses the Americas, New Zealand, Australia and Europe.  Which means they have to take into consideration all countries when releasing a game.  And with something like the Family Entertainment Protection Act being a major topic years ago, as well as the damage a company could take from having one of their titles as the flag ship for another such bill hitting the floor, it might have been something the localization team took into consideration when they made the changes they did.  Also Peeping, which could easily be construed as sexual harassment, and women hating (both of which are the aforementioned sections of missing story) will forever be hot political topics.  Again, I only mentioned as possibilities the staff might have taken into consideration.  

 

As to my movie reference, that was just an analogy I used to describe how I personally view said censorship.  Not a factual example.

 

And yes obviously people wouldn't miss what they didn't know was there.  Just like you don't miss the view out of my front door because you don't know it exists, however, I highly doubt your quality of life is any less for not knowing how my front yard looks.  Basically what I am saying is that I feel it's unlikely that any players play experience is lessened by seemingly minor pieces of story that they didn't know existed in the first place.  And I hardly think that would warrant a 30% drop in rating. Hell, I have to admit I don't even know where you're getting the percentages upon which you're basing your statements.  The only thing I really got from your response is that you played a different version before this one and because this one is slightly different than the one you've played before it's some how completely ruined the game for you.  Which isn't an entirely invalid point.  As someone who's seen both dubbed and subbed versions of the same movie before; the version I watched first inevitably influences my opinion of the second.

 

tl;dr 

There is no denying that some of the english voice acting is horrendous though. -_-

 

Disclaimer: The words "might" and "possibilities" were not meant to be taken as fact. The word "personally" was used to represent my own personal opinion and also should not be taken as fact. 

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On 1/25/2016 at 2:05 PM, .x. said:

Yeah a lot of us have seen this already. There was nothing wrong with having a sexist NPC who then was forced to acknowledge he was wrong. Nor was there anything wrong with a man peeping on a female and then being forced to suffer the consequences of his actions. Showing characters suffer or learn that their way of thinking on a matter is wrong, is far more powerful as a life lesson than simply removing it all and acting like these characters never had bad personalities in the first place.

 

This post pretty much perfectly sums up the whole thing, no? I'm surprised no one's mentioned it despite having so many likes (at least from what I seen glancing over the thread).

 

To me, it feels like the translators took it upon themselves to change the quest's to fit their own ideals, the quest's show that everyone's different. Not perfect angels that can do no wrong.

 

I get it, sexism and all that, yeah. But pretending like such things don't exist, even though it's just a fantasy world, is outright silly.

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