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Speaking as a writer by trade....

I write to inspire emotion and to convey on the readers a sense of what the characters in the story are going through..both good and bad.  To succeed at this craft, one must touch upon topics that others may deem 'uncomfortable' or 'controversial' in order to inspire emotion and thought in those that read it.  Shying away from such things or worse yet, editing someone else's work to make it more palatable to the easily offended not only destroys that which the original work was supposed to inspire but is also a insult to the art of writing. 

This is what bothers me most about this subject..and it would be my fervent wish that NCSoft could feasibly do better..and even consider correcting their crime against storytelling here.  One can only hope.

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Yeah a lot of us have seen this already. There was nothing wrong with having a sexist NPC who then was forced to acknowledge he was wrong. Nor was there anything wrong with a man peeping on a female a

The two stories changed in the game that are used as an example are:   1 - a peeping tom who wants to marry the hot babe he has been peeping on, but instead ends up marrying some ugly woman

The problem is that ncsoft obviously doesn't understand that you can't "lure" people who would never even try a relatively niche product like this by making unnecessary changes. People who want to enj

On 1/25/2016 at 2:24 PM, .x. said:

I often watch international shows in their original countries. I may not speak the language, but I have gained the ability to understand their conversations and culture. I often get excited when shows are brought to the NA, because now I can enjoy it in my native language. But often they butcher everything in the name of culture differences because apparently the viewer is viewed as to stupid to appreciate other cultures or learn about other cultures jokes and life styles.

I hate watching dubs.  They sound so bad or like a cartoon instead of an anime, it really turns me off.  Subs all the way(and most subbers do a good job).  I like the original content.

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A few things to consider: B&S is rated Mature, the setting isn't 21st century Earth and the localization team's personal preferences are unlikely to represent the majority of the western playerbase.

 

Mature means tackling subjects that might make some people uncomfortable. Pixel boobs and foul language aside, a higher age rating allows storytelling not fettered by concern over what damage might be done to little Timmy's sensitive soul while playing the game. And let's be honest, the behavior and language from fellow players is far worse than anything any MMO I've seen throws at the audience.

 

Our modern sensibilities and morality have no place in a fantasy world where murdering sentient beings is the go-to solution for almost every problem. From what I've read, both in the replies in this thread and elsewhere, the creepy NPCs get served and suffer from their misguided ways. Creeper to scholar - what lesson is taught this way?

 

"It made us uncomfortable" is not an acceptable reason to whitewash a bit of story by turning it into something entirely different. I haven't played the other versions of B&S, so I won't miss any moral ambiguity that should've been there, but playing the western version I have noticed how bland and cliché the player character's role is. Was this supposed to be a Wushu revenge story? All I see is a bright-eyed hero eagerly solving everyone's problems and running errand after errand. That's how these things usually go, but this -could- have been different.

 

The fact that the localization team were so uncomfortable suggests they neither understood nor appreciated the source material. Removing glued-on time travel doesn't strike me as a bad thing, but forcing a story from a different genre into a more "acceptable" mold is both lazy and cowardly, ultimately weakening the game as a whole.

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This is why we can't have nice things....

 

 The "Scholarly Path" quest is clearly a parody of the Hagoromo story, for them to edit it so heavily shows that the "translators" had no context of the story and were poor dealing at it. Like many others have posted in this thread and forum; localization does not mean that you alter the story to your fitting, but rather, bring the context of the story in easier cultural terms for the audience to understand. The end result of all these needless edits just made the story more bland and generic.

 

 It is pretty sad that "Western" versions of games now a days end up being the inferior version across all regions because of features cut and the like. I was watching the latest Q&A stream and there was a moment when Julianne Harty was being prideful of the English dubs and how they lip synced...and yet when I look at our version, pretty much all of the blue quests are without any kind of voice over compared to other regions; let's be honest here, NC is a not an indie company so I expected better.

 

 Before anyone goes and tells me to move to another server I would if I could handle the lag and delay from the jp servers, my proficiency is N1 so I can easily understand the language. A lot of the voice actors in the Japanese version are also well known and it's top notch, so I really wish they would add the option to include it here as well whether "officially" or "unofficially" as they claimed in the stream.   

 

 

  

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This kind of issue is what makes Americans seems dumb and self centered in my eye. I know not all of you are but i don't see the rest of the world taking offense with a lot of things you do and you are supposed to be the "free" country.  

 

For exp: Your forefather generation seems super crazy, deluded and just trash to me because of what i have seen from slavery in movies and games. Why the fug would they think white people are better than others? You are not. You are just a freaking human just like black, asian, etc. people are.

Do you guys see me or others campaigning for the removal of this kind of content? No, because we foreigners have the basic common sense to know its just an entertainment medium and probably exaggerated. We know you have move on from then and "probably" no longer thinks that white people are racially superior. So why is it that you guys apply your 21st century, white, western morality in a setting of 18th century something in Asia? Different background and Time results in different Custom and Laws, same as your slavery. For example you guys were talking about r.a.p.e in that Quest but to me it seems just like an arranged marriage, which was the main method to get married at that time. If not this guy then she would have been married off to someone else. Do you think 99% of the Women from that time were r.a.p.e.d? Who said you can't love someone that you get to know through an arranged marriage?

This is not even taking into account what they did to the Main Quest. So Americans are too "stupid" to understand time travel. I know there are dumb people in every country. But if there are people (NCS in this case) who think your content must be dumbed down and there are others who defend this practice, it just make it seems that Americans are especially dumb. The VA is also atrocious but that's a whole different story.

 

These juvenile Americans on this board should realize that the English speaking population of this world is not just America. I'm not even talking about Europe. In Literally every other country is English the most used 2nd language. If i and many others want to play a game then we have no choice but to choose the English version so don't give me: bohoo, if u don't like dis shjt then go Kr, Jp server.     

 

I'm speaking harshly here but this is a game i have been looking forward to for a long time. Then it finally came out and what i get is not the English version, but the "American" version. 

Edited by Saima
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China, THE COUNTRY WITH ONE OF THE BIGGEST CENSORSHIP, (I'M CHINESE AND I KNOW THIS VERY WELL) has less censorship than NA do right now. Most costumes has been restored back to their original State, and only huge censor is that Yulan isn't fully naked in the cut-scene which is considered a more okay and understandable censor since the game was dropped to a teen rating.

 

Chinese server's did a very faithful translation, had very fair set of voice dubbing fitting in to each character's personality, and didn't suck. Mean while, Ncsoft west just added w/e they think is great filling it with so much modern media crap that its one selfie achievement from trying to be Facebook and Soul. There so much crappy accent I thought the setting of the game was in Europe. WHY THE HELL WITH THESE ACCENTS?

 

Game crash? Oh well. Over priced costume? I'll take three. "Westernization". GARBAGE! I HAVE TO TURN OFF MY SYSYEM AND NPC SOUND SETTING TO STAND THE GAME NOW. I USE TO LOVE REWATCHING THE CUTSCENE AND MISSON AGAIN AND AGAIN BUT NOW I CAN'T SKIP THEM ANY FASTER IF I TRY!!!!!

Edited by Darkshana
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55 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

Speaking as a writer by trade....

I write to inspire emotion and to convey on the readers a sense of what the characters in the story are going through..both good and bad.  To succeed at this craft, one must touch upon topics that others may deem 'uncomfortable' or 'controversial' in order to inspire emotion and thought in those that read it.  Shying away from such things or worse yet, editing someone else's work to make it more palatable to the easily offended not only destroys that which the original work was supposed to inspire but is also a insult to the art of writing. 

This is what bothers me most about this subject..and it would be my fervent wish that NCSoft could feasibly do better..and even consider correcting their crime against storytelling here.  One can only hope.

 

AGREE 1000%. THE WHOLE POINT OF A STORY - OF WRITING IS TO CONVEY EMOTIONS UPON THE READER - WHETHER IT IS HAPPY OR SAD OR TO MAKE ONE ANGRY AT SAID CHARACTER UPON EXHIBITING BEHAVIORS NOT FAVORED BY A COMMONALITY. THAT IS WHAT ART IS ABOUT - MAKING A PERSON FEEL - INVOKING EMOTIONS.

 

Much like how using caps exhibits one 'yelling' - this in itself is a mere form of expression.

 

The thing is, people shouldn't take away from what a story is trying to do; many things already get lost in translation as it is and to actually modify a story to suit the 1% makes it unfair for the rest of the 99%.

 

The whole point of this, is the fact that the DEVs themselves a year or so ago have said that they will fight to keep the ORIGINALITY of the game - that does not only mean clothing; in all honestly who really cares about the clothing (ok I do since I like to enjoy the ART of the one who designed them). This is about a broken promise, as a business you do not lie to your customers; we have way too many that do and practice shadiness as a trademark to milk the people who were expecting the said thing.

 

Again will you pay for a product that is broken, damaged at the edges, or missing pieces for the full price? No the hell you won't and don't even say you would else I will punch you to the next dimension XD

 

P.S. WTH there was a time travel arc in this story; where the hell is it? I want to see it... ._.

Edited by illusiondoll#28
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16 minutes ago, iShirow said:

This is why we can't have nice things....

 

 The "Scholarly Path" quest is clearly a parody of the Hagoromo story, for them to edit it so heavily shows that the "translators" had no context of the story and were poor dealing at it. Like many others have posted in this thread and forum; localization does not mean that you alter the story to your fitting, but rather, bring the context of the story in easier cultural terms for the audience to understand. The end result of all these needless edits just made the story more bland and generic.

 

 It is pretty sad that "Western" versions of games now a days end up being the inferior version across all regions because of features cut and the like. I was watching the latest Q&A stream and there was a moment when Julianne Harty was being prideful of the English dubs and how they lip synced...and yet when I look at our version, pretty much all of the blue quests are without any kind of voice over compared to other regions; let's be honest here, NC is a not an indie company so I expected better.

 

 Before anyone goes and tells me to move to another server I would if I could handle the lag and delay from the jp servers, my proficiency is N1 so I can easily understand the language. A lot of the voice actors in the Japanese version are also well known and it's top notch, so I really wish they would add the option to include it here as well whether "officially" or "unofficially" as they claimed in the stream.   

 

 

  

Exactly! Context was what they lacked and instead of going and educated themselves about the origin and localize it for the audience (a job they're paid for), NC Staff just decided to erased the whole thing by adding something generic some guy thought of during lunch break. REAL writers wrote this so no, you can't change it nonchalantly and hope to get away with it. The quality is just too different. 

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I equate this to an R rated movie having scenes cut to fall into the PG13 bracket to reach a wider audience.  I am also pretty sure NCSoft didn't want BnS to be the next poster child for another Family Entertainment Protection Act. Which was probably on their minds when they did the localization. However, and like the rest of you, I can only speculate as to why they made the changes they did.  Having not played any other versions of the game I can say I didn't even notice they'd changed anything.  

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30 minutes ago, CorrosionWhite said:

I equate this to an R rated movie having scenes cut to fall into the PG13 bracket to reach a wider audience.  I am also pretty sure NCSoft didn't want BnS to be the next poster child for another Family Entertainment Protection Act. Which was probably on their minds when they did the localization. However, and like the rest of you, I can only speculate as to why they made the changes they did.  Having not played any other versions of the game I can say I didn't even notice they'd changed anything.  

 

I'm not sure how ratings work for you guys but if a game is rated M, then why should you assume that kids are playing it? I know everyone buys their kids GTA V blabla but that's their own decision and damm them for not getting informed about it. I only played a bit of the other Version but its definitely better. Dialogues makes sense instead of being nonsensical and hipster. I feel my IQ dropping by playing this version -_-  

Following movie ref, this is a movie where the rest of the world give it 90% rating where as the US only gives it 60%. Does that mean the US have better taste than the rest of the world? No, it just means that the US version only deserve 60%. Its because people know its better that they speak up about it. Obviously people who don't know wouldn't notice the dumb down, they think its only worth 60% in the first place and don't raise a fuzz.  

Edited by Saima
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When me and my wife found out that BnS was coming to the states we started saving up seperate money to drop in the game on it's release. Her, being the way she is likes large breasted and big hipped women and enjoys the beauty of the female body both in the real world and digital form. When we both realized that they censored this game after stating openly and publicly that they wouldn't we spent our money elsewhere. I took my money to MWO and hers to the various games she plays.
And we both refuse to spend money until we get the game we were promised. Will we be playing BnS? Short answer, yes. We will not however be spending money on a company that lies to it's player base.
 

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3 hours ago, PFunDaddy said:

Something people have to understand, especially with regards to the censorship issue, is that these sorts of plotlines involving sexism, or racism, or homophobia ARE controversial in Western countries, and some developers don't want that controversy to dominate discussion of the game, and would rather have their game be a game than a front for discussing racy topics.

 

And thats a problem IMO. Who the *cricket* do these people think they are  for the companies to change content for them?

If you don't like it play something else. Don't demand change.

Not everything should appeal to everyone.

Its rated mature.

 

Unfortunately this has been getting worse in the last few years everything is sexist, racist etc.

And the sad part is the people that usually demand this don't even play the game.

 

Companies  try to appease everyone and that leaves us with our censorship or "localization" problem.

They say better to take things out so they aren't problematic, on the other hand i doubt they realize many fans would like to the game to be as it is.

So it devolves into a tug of war.

 

And unfortunately in this case we are losing.

 

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23 minutes ago, Pangu said:

 

And thats a problem IMO. Who the *cricket* do these people think they are  for the companies to change content for them?

If you don't like it play something else. Don't demand change.

Not everything should appeal to everyone.

Its rated mature.

 

Unfortunately this has been getting worse in the last few years everything is sexist, racist etc.

And the sad part is the people that usually demand this don't even play the game.

 

Companies  try to appease everyone and that leaves us with our censorship or "localization" problem.

They say better to take things out so they aren't problematic, on the other hand i doubt they realize many fans would like to the game to be as it is.

So it devolves into a tug of war.

 

And unfortunately in this case we are losing.

 

I sincerely wish that most people would just understand that this is a game.  Some of the arguments I hear are things like "but it features sexual harassment and that can be triggering for people who have experienced this in reality." But that's fine if you're an unintelligent human being. My old Rotc buddy enlisted in the marines, did a 3 year tour and came back with moderate shellshock. I asked him if playing FPS games triggered his PTSD and what he told me makes me laugh in the face of people like those defending the censorship we're seeing. He told me this "It's just a game, it's not reality. What causes my episodes are other things that happen around me on a daily basis. Car doors slamming, thunderstorms, helicopters but never a stupid game."

I know this may seem off topic, but it's the same mindset that some of these PC people use when they're defending the "localization" of foreign material.

"It's inappropriate for people who have experienced sexual assault."
"It triggers people with PTSD."
"It's disgusting and has real world consequences."

I honestly can't speak for it causing attacks associated with ptsd. But I can speak to those spewing nonsensical garbage about how peeping on a *cricket*ing girl in game's quest line translates to real world problems and perpetuating *cricket* culture. This is a game, that's all it will be, and that's all it will remain. If you don't like that fact then you need to seriously have a psychiatric evaluation done so you can tell fantasy from reality, just like people who lost their spaghetti over 50 shades of grey.  

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2 minutes ago, Alukah said:

ITT: Angry nerds who have no idea what localization means.

Nice addition to the conversation. Good to know that you're capable of having 3 brain cells fire off in unison in order to type your response.

We know what localization means, it's a very very subtle term for "censoring" as to not *cricket* off the player base who want a pure experience of what said game is.

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7 minutes ago, Evangelite said:

Nice addition to the conversation. Good to know that you're capable of having 3 brain cells fire off in unison in order to type your response.

We know what localization means, it's a very very subtle term for "censoring" as to not *cricket* off the player base who want a pure experience of what said game is.

 

Nice irony, complains about my post and then goes off to insult back, practice what you preach.

 

You might know, but if you have been following the thread the majority thinks localization = translation, besides people act like paying for founder means they own the product, it's their game and they can modify it in whatever way they want, if you're not okay with that you're free to beg them to let you pay for another license and host your own version, or just don't play at all.

Edited by Alukah
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2 minutes ago, Evangelite said:

Nice addition to the conversation. Good to know that you're capable of having 3 brain cells fire off in unison in order to type your response.

We know what localization means, it's a very very subtle term for "censoring" as to not *cricket* off the player base who want a pure experience of what said game is.

To be fair, localization is a legitimate term. They're just exploiting it in this case to skirt around the issue. 

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Just now, Alukah said:

 

Nice irony, complains about my post and then goes off to insult back, practice what you preach.

 

You might know, but if you have been following the thread the majority thinks localization = translation, besides people act like paying for founder means they own the product, it's their game and they can modify it in whatever way they want, if you're not okay with that you're free to beg them to let you pay for another license and host your own version.

Nah, I just think that me and most of the other people who are having this problem will keep our money we would have spent otherwise in our pockets. and by all the responses I see I'm pretty sure quite a few people are going to follow suit.

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7 minutes ago, Alukah said:

 

Nice irony, complains about my post and then goes off to insult back, practice what you preach.

 

You might know, but if you have been following the thread the majority thinks localization = translation, besides people act like paying for founder means they own the product, it's their game and they can modify it in whatever way they want, if you're not okay with that you're free to beg them to let you pay for another license and host your own version, or just don't play at all.

 

So what is your definition of localization then? You know my definition of localization as I am sure you are intently following this thread. From what I have read so far, it is not like too many people are asking for a 1:1 direct translation, but rather, it's the dislike of how they handled some parts and altered in a way that doesn't resemble anything near the original.

 

Also, what did you expect when you posted such an insightful prior comment earlier after all. Ironic how most of the civil conversation being handled in this thread comes from those who are dissatisfied about this issue.

 

NCSoft is also asking for feedback about the story and translation if you have read the surveys around Act 3, so it is fair for us to criticize about it; and hopefully, future acts won't be as heavily edited. 

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2 minutes ago, iShirow said:

 

So what is your definition of localization then? You know my definition of localization as I am sure you are intently following this thread. From what I have read so far, it is not like too many people are asking for a 1:1 direct translation, but rather, it's the dislike of how they handled some parts and altered in a way that doesn't resemble anything near the original.

 

Also, what did you expect when you posted such an insightful prior comment earlier after all. Ironic how most of the civil conversation being handled in this thread comes from those who are dissatisfied about this issue.

 

NCSoft is also asking for feedback about the story and translation if you have read the surveys around Act 3, so it is fair for us to criticize about it; and hopefully, future acts won't be as heavily edited. 

MY definition? I don't have one, but THE definition was posted here

 

Localizing goes beyond just translating, it adapts the content to the target audience, our culture is very different from the Korean, in this adaptation things can be added, changed or removed.

 

Nearly all games localized in NA have things added, changed or removed, even the main story, but with the consent of the developer.

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6 minutes ago, Alukah said:

MY definition? I don't have one, but THE definition was posted here

 

Localizing goes beyond just translating, it adapts the content to the target audience, our culture is very different from the Korean, in this adaptation things can be added, changed or removed.

 

Nearly all games localized in NA have things added, changed or removed, even the main story, but with the consent of the developer.

So in other words you would be fine if one of the npc dialogues changes from "We are doomed!!" to "I like wheaties <3" ?  

Edited by iShirow
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4 minutes ago, Alukah said:

 

Hyperbole.

 Might be, but they might as well written that much when it came to the time travel part of the story. It was severely disjointed and totally unnecessary to change, however, it was done due to a certain writer's preference.

Edited by iShirow
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