Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release

[QueenSheba]

2 hours ago, Aerasani said:

 

Sexism and misogyny is not a "mature theme".  Would you feel the same if they had removed blatant homophobia or racism?  It's actually the epitome of professionalism and business sense to remove things found offensive by a significant percentage of the population.

I wonder how the NA reception would go if the Lycandi were black instead of fox-girls with all the slavery and sexual subjugation. 

 

[Tavi]

It's a little creepy how dependent a few people in this game are, on a few more inches of skin. I mean the game shows a lot as it is and looks awesome! I feel like knit picking for just a few more inches of teet is getting a little thirsty for human interaction and it might be time to take off the fedora, and emerge from basement dwellings to seek out human contact. 

 

Also, as a woman, who appreciates pretty things, I love that this game stays pretty equal across the board for outfits. That said, there is nothing fun about sexism and reading gross responses about women like they are nothing but a pair of tits. This game is way more than a pair of breasts and a nicki worthy a**, its actually got decent story, and great game play, something worth marketing, way way more than skimp(ier) outfits.

 

 

[Fuz]

7 hours ago, Aerasani said:

 

No we're not.  Localization invokes adapting and changing elements of a work to fit into the culture of the country it's being brought into.  That includes removing things found offensive and wrong in the destination country that aren't objectionable in the origin country .  It also means you can ADD things that are offensive in the origin country but not the destination country.

I worked in translation on some pretty important projects. You DO NOT alter the meaning of the original work. That's censorship, period.
You're wrong and you should educate yourself on the matter. And since I'm not your support teacher and I'm tired of wasting time with your inability to understand basic concepts, I'll stop here.
If you think it's right to censor a game or a book or an art piece to adapt to the "local market" you're a danger to culture and society and are no better than the nazis who thought it was right to burn books.
You should read Fahrenheit 451 and 1984. Or just see the Simpson's episode with Michelangelo's David.

[Nisien]

3 hours ago, Tavi said:

It's a little creepy how dependent a few people in this game are, on a few more inches of skin.

 

The censorship in question is actually related to story elements. NA outfits are actually more revealing than previous versions, hilariously enough.

 

Apparently this included completely altering the game's main storyline to remove moral ambiguity and turn NPCs into caricatures, as well as rewriting a sidequest completely to turn a cautionary tale of what can happen to egoistic perverts into something blander and far less amusing.

[Shilen]

8 hours ago, Aerasani said:

 

Sexism and misogyny is not a "mature theme".  Would you feel the same if they had removed blatant homophobia or racism?  It's actually the epitome of professionalism and business sense to remove things found offensive by a significant percentage of the population.

There is a very large difference between portraying sexism and misogyny in a game, and condoning it.

[Ianto]

Censorship is a silly thing...quests that have you slaughter an entire field of harmless pigs are totally fine....but pervy old men are a huge "no no". Ncsoftpls.  

 

 

[Asuka]

13 minutes ago, Fuz said:

I worked in translation on some pretty important projects. You DO NOT alter the meaning of the original work. That's censorship, period.
You're wrong and you should educate yourself on the matter. And since I'm not your support teacher and I'm tired of wasting time with your inability to understand basic concepts, I'll stop here.
If you think it's right to censor a game or a book or an art piece to adapt to the "local market" you're a danger to culture and society and are no better than the nazis who thought it was right to burn books.
You should read Fahrenheit 451 and 1984. Or just see the Simpson's episode with Michelangelo's David.

 

Pretty much this. There's a difference between wrestling with idioms and slang when translating/adapting a material and butchering the NOTION. And everybody who downplays this, I don't know why you do it when it clear it's not about quantity or importance of those parts, but about the principle - a principle which is VERY important.

 

And censorship isn't limited to state-imposed law censorship. There's self-censorship as well and it counts as - a censorship. It's a very real occurrence and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Especially in the "free world".

 

Also, while "adaptation" and "translation" etc. aren't rigidly defined boundaries-wise, this is a very clear case. You DO NOT make Anna Karenina go to nascar instead of horce races or throw herself under a subway train when you want to print it in US in english. Among other things, value of one's expression, especially when it comes from someone who's NOT LIKE YOU, lies within these diferentias specificas. If I am watching a Danish movie, I want to watch a Danish movie. Even if Danish were, I don't know (sorry Danish readers, it's an imaginary example, and for some reason word "danish" were in my mind just now:D), incestuous cannibals with wings or something:) If that reflected in their movies and I happen not to like it, I might conclude that I don't enjoy their movies and never watch another one again. But that's up to me. If there's something totally unacceptable in that imaginary Danish movie (though there's no possibility in that unless it was a real snuff movie or something or a very graphic documentary about that incestuous cannibalism - which again could be easily solved through 18+ tag but ok) then don't import it and don't translate it. Not a pleasant solution, but in principle better than this.

 

And all this without even touching in particular what has been changed. And if we actually do that, we see that by no measures, things that were butchered, were somehow alien or offensive to western cultures. Every single thing that was changed - every single one - is a global archetype and not a "cultural difference" or something.

Remember people, we aren't talking about idioms or jokes, we are talking about notions, stories, dialogues etc.

And also, this isn't the only occasion. The infamous clothes quest or whatever. Why is the mayor like "oh I am in the wrong well" instead of "I am investigating xyz"? Because in the original version he is investigating. There is no humor for nine year old people in that event. Why is it there in western version? Was it unacceptable somehow? Or are we supposed to swallow an extremely out of character, out of context and out of intelligence (main character would react right then and there unless their iq was less than ~60) dialogue that is there for reasons unknown? Was it something offensive about it? The ONLY THING that does (among many, many, MANY other adapted and twisted notions, relations, actions etc in the adapted version of the game) is dumbing down the content. The content that isn't hard to grasp AT ALL. It's not even unrelatable, it's not overly complex, it's not boring etc.

Why touch just about everything there is in the game only for it to look like an episode of GI Joe mixed with twitch chat? There is absolutely no sense in that.

 

"Touchy" subjects are nothing but this. People like to justify them being changed because they look at the premise and if the premise has an ounce of possibility of making someone uncomfortable, they go "ah ok, understandable". There's nothing understandable about the changes, every single one was due to dumbing down the content (while the original content wasn't exactly Nietzsche meets Dostoevski, so there was no need for that - and even if the content was as complex - then that's blade and soul). Every single one. Even the "problematic ones" were due to that, as they actually weren't "problematic" at all! There is a very morally plausible cause and effect there actually. Why is it unacceptable for the west? This is only dumbing down.

 

 

Not that any of the above has to be analyzed or said even, the mere fact is enough for the whole notion to be normally perceived as negative. Some might say it's unimportant, I disagree as I look at it from a different standpoint. It's not about quantity and percentages. "Well, yes, we did made Anna go to nascar races and changed her name into Ann Karen, as it sounds more western, but you know how big is that book? We changed like 0.001%, not a big deal" - I can't fathom how people can support something like this just because "it's not a big deal". When it really is.

[Iduno]

8 hours ago, Aerasani said:

 

Sexism and misogyny is not a "mature theme".  Would you feel the same if they had removed blatant homophobia or racism?  It's actually the epitome of professionalism and business sense to remove things found offensive by a significant percentage of the population.

 

I'd say erasing it and saying that these things don't exist is actually more sexist, one is the tale of a perv getting his comeuppance and the other is the tale of biggot getting saved by one he hates and turning over a new leaf, is this generation really so baby soft it can't handle this because people with views they don't like are shown to exist?

 

What is equally pathetic is that people are also justifying this with "Well the translators felt uncomfortable", as someone who's worked in an estate agent there have been plenty of things I've felt "uncomfortable" having to do but have had to do anyway, which had far more consequences than having to type out something I didn't agree with, the professional thing is to put your personal issues aside and to do the job you are paid to do properly, not go taking liberties because "muh feelings".

[Asuka]

It's a little creepy how dependent a few people in this game are, on a few more inches of skin. I mean the game shows a lot as it is and looks awesome! I feel like knit picking for just a few more inches of teet is getting a little thirsty for human interaction and it might be time to take off the fedora, and emerge from basement dwellings to seek out human contact. 

 

Also, as a woman, who appreciates pretty things, I love that this game stays pretty equal across the board for outfits. That said, there is nothing fun about sexism and reading gross responses about women like they are nothing but a pair of tits. This game is way more than a pair of breasts and a nicki worthy a**, its actually got decent story, and great game play, something worth marketing, way way more than skimp(ier) outfits.

 

 

That's not the point. I would see it as catastrophic if this game was about puritan characters and npcs in a puritan settings with puritan graphics and stories and notions - and if the adaptation team decided to "liven things up" with booty everywhere and altered quests to be more lively or whatever.

 

This is a repression of original material however that material might be and isn't that the point of the whole notion? Why are you trying to downplay it by forcily bringing it down to a "more bootiez lolz" level? It really isn't contructive, nor it does any good. It's like someone asnwered to my example with anna karenina and nascar by "hey you russofile, go wank to your aristocratic horse races elsewhere, there's much more than that in that story, it's a story about family and choices!". Why do that, I mean, why? Is it that hard to see that that's not the point?

[AttacKat]

17 hours ago, Hidaru said:

Can someone from NC please comment on why the story was changed and left with plot holes?  Side quests fine but the story D: why?

They did, a senior editor that actually did the changes for one of the stories. But players still b*itch and whined thinking *THEY* own the product.

 

There is ONE fact, NCS KR owns the product, and KR gave NA the go ahead (and final approval) on all of the name/story changes. Nothing was done w/o KR review/approval. So people really need to accept that and STFU about it. Those stupid self-righteous websites are nothing but attention/hit grabbers.

[illusiondoll#28]

28 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

They did, a senior editor that actually did the changes for one of the stories. But players still b*itch and whined thinking *THEY* own the product.

 

There is ONE fact, NCS KR owns the product, and KR gave NA the go ahead (and final approval) on all of the name/story changes. Nothing was done w/o KR review/approval. So people really need to accept that and STFU about it. Those stupid self-righteous websites are nothing but attention/hit grabbers.

 

But, we are paying for the product (so technically it is OURS), surely when you buy a product you would want everything to be unadulterated when you purchase it hmmm? Why would you buy a broken product for the full price? Despite this being a F2P MMO they are still getting money - the least a business can do is keep their promise to the "originality" they have claim to keep. This means everything unchanged from content down to the wording from KR to ENG, yes KR oversights the game however a promise that the current DEVs made was broken; again they have said they would prevent censorship of the game and keep it true to its nature. However the invasion of the fire nation said otherwise... ^^

 

P.S. The story Arc of the game has a ton of typos and voice doesn't even follow the text that had been written or no voice at all ._.

So much for the job they had to do but, we are all human right - mistakes can be made and rectified~

[Aerasani]

3 hours ago, Fuz said:

I worked in translation on some pretty important projects. You DO NOT alter the meaning of the original work. That's censorship, period.
You're wrong and you should educate yourself on the matter. And since I'm not your support teacher and I'm tired of wasting time with your inability to understand basic concepts, I'll stop here.
If you think it's right to censor a game or a book or an art piece to adapt to the "local market" you're a danger to culture and society and are no better than the nazis who thought it was right to burn books.
You should read Fahrenheit 451 and 1984. Or just see the Simpson's episode with Michelangelo's David.

 

Except for the fact that localization is not the same as translation.  You're, again, using them interchangeably when they are not synonyms.  You need to go look up what actual localization is rather than your limited notion of it.

This is not fascism and equating the two is extremely antisemitic.  This is not about burning books but about adapting works to fit the culture of the ported nation better.  Again, that is what localization is all about.  You adapt and change to make sure a product does well in the new market.  If you don't do that then you have a failed product.  Localization is based on  CAPITALISM not FASCISM.

 

3 hours ago, Shilen said:

There is a very large difference between portraying sexism and misogyny in a game, and condoning it.

 

This is a tried and true argument against "Political correctness" and "censorship".  Problem is it's wrong.  There is a very small difference that is pretty much nonexistent.  The easiest way to explain is with *cricket* jokes.  People say that *cricket* jokes are okay and don't actually condone *cricket*.  The issue is that rapists identify with the joke and feel they are being accepted.  Rapists or people with rapist feelings feel like they're being told it's okay to *cricket*.  This happens no matter how "not serious" the joke is.  Basically, intent doesn't matter.  Result does.  

 

2 hours ago, Iduno said:

 

I'd say erasing it and saying that these things don't exist is actually more sexist, one is the tale of a perv getting his comeuppance and the other is the tale of biggot getting saved by one he hates and turning over a new leaf, is this generation really so baby soft it can't handle this because people with views they don't like are shown to exist?

 

What is equally pathetic is that people are also justifying this with "Well the translators felt uncomfortable", as someone who's worked in an estate agent there have been plenty of things I've felt "uncomfortable" having to do but have had to do anyway, which had far more consequences than having to type out something I didn't agree with, the professional thing is to put your personal issues aside and to do the job you are paid to do properly, not go taking liberties because "muh feelings".

 

And as a woman I completely disagree.  I would have ignored the first story at all costs and been extremely uncomfortable.  And his "comeuppance" is having to marry an "ugly, muscled woman" which he complains about.  That just reaffirms that desirability is the most important aspect of a woman.  Now if he had been jailed or executed or something with a huge message of "this is wrong" then yeah, it'd be good to have.  But that's not what the story was.

It's also not about being "baby soft" it's about actually caring about other people and their feelings.  It's called being compassionate.

My justification is actually capitalism.  To keep those things in would have created a lot of negative press which would have detracted from the game and would have caused NCSoft money.

 

1 hour ago, illusiondoll#28 said:

 

But, we are paying for the product (so technically it is OURS), surely when you buy a product you would want everything to be unadulterated when you purchase it hmmm? Why would you buy a broken product for the full price? Despite this being a F2P MMO they are still getting money - the least a business can do is keep their promise to the "originality" they have claim to keep. This means everything unchanged from content down to the wording from KR to ENG, yes KR oversights the game however a promise that the current DEVs made was broken; again they have said they would prevent censorship of the game and keep it true to its nature. However the invasion of the fire nation said otherwise... ^^

 

P.S. The story Arc of the game has a ton of typos and voice doesn't even follow the text that had been written or no voice at all ._.

So much for the job they had to do but, we are all human right - mistakes can be made and rectified~

 

You should read the EUA.  We don't own anything.  We pay for the right to use the service not the physical game.  This is why they can take your access away for any reason at any time.  

No game ported to another country is every just translated.  Ever.  They are all changed.  That's how it works.

[Pangu]

I don't want to talk about censorship, just the quality of the story.

Those complaining about the story being okay should watch the korean version and see for themselves.

 

At first as i discovered the changes that were made i wasn't worried and  didn't want to judge the story till i saw it myself.

After experiencing both versions i can personally say that the korean version wins. Theres no discussion to be made:

voice acting top notch, story i actually understood what was going on & i wasn't confused like with the english version. Oh the irony xD

Its actually telling that a fan made translation is less confusing than the english one. WTF were the writers thinking?

 

For the EU/NA changes others mentioned them, i can only say that the things removed/changed just take away from the story not add to it. Also seeing that this is supposed to be a mature game i'm really not sure why the muh feelings were hurt crowd should be listened to.

Any adult worth their salt should be able to talk about any topics including *cricket*, racism etc. 

If something makes you uncomfortable thinking why is more helpfull than just saying change it.

 

Last thing that really makes me angry though is that people are saying the author in korea approves?

I'm willing to stake my life that the people that made the original had no idea about the changes did to the story afterall they did hand over the translation. So why would anyone fiddle with it?

 

So in the end what do we get then? A bastardized version of blade & soul. Its as if i wrote some bad fanfiction and tried selling it around claiming its written by the original author.

Anyone should see that's shameless right?

 

So yes we got just Blade - good combat, but no soul story is subpar.

 

 

[illusiondoll#28]

26 minutes ago, Pangu said:

Last thing that really makes me angry though is that people are saying the author in korea approves?

I'm willing to stake my life that the people that made the original had no idea about the changes did to the story afterall they did hand over the translation. So why would anyone fiddle with it?

 

So in the end what do we get then? A a bastardized version of blade & soul. Its as if  wrote some bad fanfiction and tried selling it around claiming its written by the original author.

Anyone should see that's shameless right?

 

So yes we got just Blade - good combat, but no soul story is subpar.

 

 

 

This I can agree with; all this shows is the lack of appreciation in the author's writing - no matter how raunchy it can be. Writing as a form of ART is meant to be expressive and convey a message; whether it is suppose to be comical to dreadful - the author had the opportunity to express whatever he/she wanted. However allowing a personal want ruined the essence of the story told; if such was an offense, if originality was so important as proclaimed then why even do this? 

 

I am certain if a poll was taken, the majority of communion here would deny such to be changed if asked about it - since most if not all want a product to be unchanged. Translation/ Localization is there out of convenience to help us know/ love/ appreciate the ART behind it, not to morph parts of the story; that is like myself sticking my finger in your warm apple pie. You wouldn't want the part that was touched so you cut it off however you are left with less than what you started with. As a whole - their job was to keep the story raw and uncut; making it so our eyes can read and judge.

[Shilen]

8 minutes ago, Aerasani said:

 

This is a tried and true argument against "Political correctness" and "censorship".  Problem is it's wrong.  There is a very small difference that is pretty much nonexistent.  The easiest way to explain is with *cricket* jokes.  People say that *cricket* jokes are okay and don't actually condone *cricket*.  The issue is that rapists identify with the joke and feel they are being accepted.  Rapists or people with rapist feelings feel like they're being told it's okay to *cricket*.  This happens no matter how "not serious" the joke is.  Basically, intent doesn't matter.  Result does.  

 

Ok, but take the lycandi part in the korean main quests (it was rewritten for na/eu).  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5z8RIC8bM&index=6&list=PLdvDlPKe6PePYQPlyq1FQq7hdVKoTJtfH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGIoj8F10ok&index=7&list=PLdvDlP+Ke6PePYQPlyq1FQq7hdVKoTJtfH 

 

Here, the sexist guy is depicted as wrong and a hinder to the PC's goals. Eventually he admits Westwind is a great warrior and swears he'll try to persuade the rest of his tribe to abandon their sexist ways. He also agrees to join the Alliance, which he previously refused because the Alliance's leader is a woman.

 

My point is, even if there are sexist characters or parts of a game/book/whatever where sexism is addressed (especially where sexism is depicted as something bad) does not mean that the authors themselves condone it. What the readers do however, is something completely different entirely.

 

Why are you comparing *cricket* with sexism? *cricket* is a crime that can happen and be commited by anyone. Sure, most victims are women and most predators are men, but your arguments have little to do with the issues at hand.

[Fuz]

1 hour ago, Aerasani said:

 

The job was "translator", and included direct translation, localization and adapting. It never included censorship.
I felt uncomfortable aiding the Yonkai, but I would never had asked to censor that to adapt to my personal feelings and point of view.

Anyway, you clearly don't know nothing about the issue at hand, and how localization is supposed to work. I tried to explain it to you, but you clearly lack the proper education to grasp the concept.
I'm done wasting time with such a small mind.
Have a nice day.

[Aerasani]

4 minutes ago, Fuz said:

The job was "translator", and included direct translation, localization and adapting. It never included censorship.

Anyway, you clearly don't know nothing about the issue at hand, and what localization is supposed to work. I tried to explain it to you, but you clearly lack the proper education to grasp the concept.
I'm done wasting time with such a small mind.
Have a nice day.

 

Resorting to insults just shows the weakness of your argument.  The actual definition of localization proves you wrong.  Actual business practices also prove you wrong.  You are wrong and I have proven as such.  You just refuse to acknowledge it and keep yelling censorship.  

[Sylla]

They promised no censorship, and they arent accomplishing it.

 

Dont spin it around.

A company that cant keep their words, is not a worth company.

[illusiondoll#28]

1 hour ago, Sylla said:

They promised no censorship, and they arent accomplishing it.

 

Dont spin it around.

A company that cant keep their words, is not a worth company.

 

That is all I say~ Honestly, don't say one thing and have your fingers crossed.

 

If one gets offended by how a writer conveyed their thought; well the most one can do is put the book down and never look again. In a world of imperfection most want to make it perfect and cater to so many ideals that are in existence; sadly that is impossible. We can only coexist in silence and just acknowledge the fact that there are those who sees things differently. However such ideals should not impede on the right of another; thus in this case the writer of this story.

 

Besides it is a joke when fictional characters are involved - right? Honesty I do find the perv thing entertaining to say the least just so he can get his jive back. As for the woman hater, his view gets turned around and his opinion changes after being rescued; thus a revelation on his part - how is that offensive?

[Sylla]

3 minutes ago, illusiondoll#28 said:

 

That is all I say~ Honestly, don't say one thing and have your fingers crossed.

 

If one gets offended by how a writer conveyed their thought; well the most one can do is put the book down and never look again. In a world of imperfection most want to make it perfect and cater to so many ideals that are in existence; sadly that is impossible. We can only coexist in silence and just acknowledge the fact that there are those who sees things differently. However such ideals should not impede on the right of another; thus in this case the writer of this story.

That happens when women take control of thing. Everything is harassment, everything is ofensive, everything is harassment, everything is problem. We are talking about a game.

[Shilen]

8 minutes ago, Sylla said:

That happens when women take control of thing. Everything is harassment, everything is ofensive, everything is harassment, everything is problem. We are talking about a game.

This is a problem.  It's is not only sexist; but you're also generalising women.

We're having a civil discussion here. There is no need for these delusional and highly distasteful comments.

 

 

[Sylla]

21 minutes ago, Shilen said:

This is a problem.  It's is not only sexist; but you're also generalising women.

We're having a civil discussion here. There is no need for these delusional and highly distasteful comments.

 

 

More ofensive is to me to have a censored game when ive been promised that not.

And sexist is censor female body, because it is misogynist. Like muslims.

[Shilen]

Just now, Sylla said:

More ofensive is to me to have a censored game when ive been promised that not.

That's two completely different topics. Can't compare.

[Sylla]

1 minute ago, Shilen said:

That's two completely different topics. Can't compare.

"Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release" where is diferent? we are talking about censorship in here.

[Shilen]

1 minute ago, Sylla said:

"Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release" where is diferent? we are talking about censorship in here.

You can't compare real life sexism to censorship in a game... But we're getting of-topic. Do you mind if we just leave it at this?