Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release

[Krosa]

10 minutes ago, kyuven said:

Localization is a very, very tough job.

If there's something in your translation that makes you feel uncomfortable, it can be VERY hard to work with it since not only do you have to go through and have it translated, but you also need to make sure it fits within the context of the overall narrative.

In the end it really doesn't matter what happens to these two NPCs, so they changed it because it made them uncomfortable. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

The issue I have is in the core of the game: At one point it seems like they wanted to have some form of branching moral paths, given the existence of things like the Blackram "initiation," and the use of dark chi, but they scrapped it.

Also might have to do with complaints NCSoft had to field when Wildstar and City of Heroes/Villains had some pretty...morally repugnant...quests that you couldn't really skip.

It doesn't matter if it makes the localizer uncomfortable, They're localizing the game for a much wider audience and they aren't the only ones that are playing the game.
That's like a movie director cutting out a load of stuff from their movie because it made them uncomfortable, screw the people that paid to see what they were advertised.

[captnpantyraid]

When it comes to game development &design in general, translation & localization is to be done as "what is BEST for the AUDIENCE that will BE PLAYING your game".

Literally your own feelings are supposed to go out the window and be done for the AUDIENCE (particularly if they REALLY did just did it for their own comfort).

Now this being a Korean made game that whole part of the story line is more UNEXPECTED of them than it is for us. Since up until a few years ago you could be arrested for cheating CHEATING in Korea. 

 

And it does feel a bit back-stabbed when they say what we all wanted to hear "NO CENSORSHIP" and to change things anyway. Like they turned an over-sexualized woman into a still over-sexualized female but as a preppy cheerleader (in terms of positions). It won't stop me from playing the game but it's kind of a let down. 
But it is what it is. If you don't trust the company just don't buy anything from them : ^ ) or move over to another server (China has censorship out the ass btw). 

[Fuz]

I've got an idea.
Let's censor all that elf-dwarves racism from Lord of the Rings.

And burn and destroy all copies of Mein Kampf. It's offensive!

[YukiNyuu]

Censorship is boring. 

[Hidaru]

18 minutes ago, Boctoona said:

 

Same reason movies and shows get changed either when they release in America and go to Japan or from Japan to America,  Sailor moon ended up really weird with some of the relationships between the characters , power rangers saw that too all sorts of weird messed up differences in both versions, a lot of those variety shows any time they come over get changed a huge amount, like Takeshi's castle aired as most extreme elimination challenge was completely redone with random quips and dialogue because the same format of show between the regions are not that popular, a 1-1 translation dub of takeshi's castle wouldn't have been as remotely popular as MXC and likewise if it was the other way around. 

 

They have an "idea" of what that audience likes and dislikes, and so they do what they feel will be best for the majority of people.

 

 

Huge amounts of "western" gamers view games like blade and soul as a joke because of their hyper sexulized nature, so knowing that they tried to tone it down a whee bit, Ive been enjoying this game but I still get a kick out of the almost absurd amount of misplaced ass shots "characters friend just died and shes crying, i know lets zoom the camera right up to her ass" kind of deal happens so often. 

 

it's just a difference in audiences, what one country finds funny, sad or enjoyable isn't the same for another country or region,  people just like different things and companies tend to try and cater to the majority in any region, and things that work in one are just won't in another. 

 

That'd be fine if what they changed made any sense at all.  They couldnt edit the cutscenes so the stuff they changed did not line up AT all.  I think any audience would want a consistent story and not something that has been butchered and had things added that dont fit in at all.  

[.x.]

20 minutes ago, kyuven said:

Localization is a very, very tough job.

If there's something in your translation that makes you feel uncomfortable, it can be VERY hard to work with it since not only do you have to go through and have it translated, but you also need to make sure it fits within the context of the overall narrative.

In the end it really doesn't matter what happens to these two NPCs, so they changed it because it made them uncomfortable. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

The issue I have is in the core of the game: At one point it seems like they wanted to have some form of branching moral paths, given the existence of things like the Blackram "initiation," and the use of dark chi, but they scrapped it.

Also might have to do with complaints NCSoft had to field when Wildstar and City of Heroes/Villains had some pretty...morally repugnant...quests that you couldn't really skip.

 

I often face situations where my morals prevent me from doing certain things at my job, but I never force anyone to change their ways for me. I simply tell my boss I can't do this because of xy&z and offer my abilities elsewhere. If they ever feel the need to let me go, so be it. But I don't force my morals on others.

 

People put their trust in localization teams to translate stuff and keep things as close to the original as possible. When translators don't do that, they are breaking the trust of the customer. I often watch international shows in their original countries. I may not speak the language, but I have gained the ability to understand their conversations and culture. I often get excited when shows are brought to the NA, because now I can enjoy it in my native language. But often they butcher everything in the name of culture differences because apparently the viewer is viewed as to stupid to appreciate other cultures or learn about other cultures jokes and life styles.

 

For example, sex before marriage is frowned upon in other cultures. So in some shows, a male or female face the challenge of upholding their morals and not giving into physical urges. They are often viewed as a sort of hero as they are fighting the greatest demon one could face, themselves. Here in the NA, anyone doing that is mocked, considered a wimp and is outright shunned by society. NA has no real morals, nor do we respect morals. Heck a huge % of us don't even know what morals are. lol So in some cases characters are changed to fit our way of life here in the NA. I hate when they do that.

[Fuz]

1 hour ago, Shilen said:

 

[Fuz]

11 minutes ago, .x. said:

characters are changed to fit our way of life here in the NA. I hate when they do that.

 

Problem is, you drag down EU too.

[.x.]

Just now, Fuz said:

 

Problem is, you drag down EU too.

 

I personally don't like it. I think they should leave the story as it is. I like seeing other cultures and their morals portrayed in media.

[NueHoujuu]

Sounds like the NA team doesn't watch enough anime ;p

[Fuz]

I wasn't talking about you :) your post was clear enough.
Generally speaking.

[Temjiu]

1 hour ago, HaroWorld said:

Uhhh, not really... take a look at the most highly translated book, the bible. Not all of them are consistant, neither do they read the same. But they are translated from the same book. Some alter entire passages because it doesn't make sense..

American Standard Version
Common English Bible
English Standard Version
King James Version

 

Source: http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-versions/

Except in most modern accepted translations of the bible, the literary intent behind the adapted verses remains the same. It's one thing to change a sentence or a statement in order to make the intent of the statement understandable in another language. It's another to change things entirely so the story isn't what it was.

 

Having said that...I'm not someone who blatantly states that "censorship" is bad...some things need to be censored. There's absolutely no reason that a 6 yr old child needs to be exposed to pornography or mutilated bodies. It's not the blanket censorship that is the issue IMO, it's the unnecessary censorship that is. It just seems like some of the stuff that they cut out in this game wasn't necessary. I don't care personally, as I don't feel like I'm missing something when it wasn't there for me in the first place. BUt at the least I support those simply asking, "Why?" IIRC i needed verification of age to set up an account to d/l this game. not that it's an excuse, but it should be a warning to those who play the game that it's adult oriented at the least. which means you should be prepared to see some things....

 

I equate it to taking your 6 yr old to an R movie. it's certainly your prerogative, but don't complain when you see stuff that you want censored so that your 6 yr old doesn't see it. My suggestion...take your 6 yr old out of the theater. With this game...well, people can certainly leave if they don't like the censorship, but the inverse of that is....they could have kept it in, and people who didn't like it could have left...

 

...Although I suppose that they decided that they'd lose less people due to the censorship then they would if they kept it in. Meh, either way I'll still play the game. 

[Fuz]

15 minutes ago, Temjiu said:

some things need to be censored. There's absolutely no reason that a 6 yr old child needs to be exposed to pornography or mutilated bodies.

That's not censorship. It's giving an age rating.

Censorship is *always* bad. It's someone deciding for you, and allowing you to see/read/experience only what they'll like.

And please... stop with the bible example. It's a stupid analogy. It's a 3000 old year book, which went through revisions, bad translations, different interpretations and, yes, censorship.

[Aerasani]

Localization is not translation.  People need to stop using the two interchangeability.  Localizing a work means changing aspects of the work to fit the culture of where the game is to be released.  This means not only changing cultural slang and mentions but also changing aspects that may reflect negatively on the game and publisher in the new country. 

[Fuz]

4 minutes ago, Aerasani said:

Localizing a work means changing aspects of the work to fit the culture of where the game is to be released

No it doesn't.

[Temjiu]

2 minutes ago, Fuz said:

That's not censorship. It's giving an age rating.

Censorship is *always* bad. It's someone deciding for you, and allowing you to see/read/experience only what they'll like.

And please... stop with the bible example. It's a stupid analogy. It's a 3000 old year book, which went through revisions, bad translations, different interpretations and, yes, censorship.

I can see what you mean with the definition of censorship. so what if they cut out bad scenes in a movie in order for a young child to see it? is that censorship? would it be censorship if they made 2 versions of the game, one adult and the other for the kids? would that fall under age rating? 

 

And I completely disagree with your opinion on the literary accuracy of the Bible. But you are correct, this isn't a forum for theological debates, So I'll leave it at agreeing to disagree, and well move on.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

If I had found a fan made retranslation of the game I'd use it.

 

Just as I'd use fan provided voice packs for games that don't provide the options for multi audio for a language I'd like to listen to.

[Aerasani]

6 minutes ago, Fuz said:

No it doesn't.

 

Yes it does. 

Quote

Localization (also referred to as "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or content to a specific locale or market. Translation is only one of several elements of the localizationprocess.

 

[Fuz]

You never worked as a translator, did you?

Adapting doesn't mean changing the story, it means making the different common saying, proverbs and so on that are present in the original version but doesn't exist in the target language work with the minimum possible changes.
It's not a 1:1 translation (most of the time it's just not possible) and it's ABSOLUTELY NOT censorship or revision.

[kyuven]

17 minutes ago, Fuz said:

No it doesn't.

Yes, yes it does.

Translation is part of localization, but it's not the entirety of it. Let's give an example here:

Let's say you're in charge of distributing a book from Britain in the U.S.. In Britain, they use the word "flat" to refer to apartments. Now let's say you're bringing this book over for an audience that has NO idea about British idioms.

In the book, there's a joke involving using two meanings of the word "flat." Since it's a comedy book, you NEED to define this term or the joke is lost. Or, you can alter the joke to suit the audience that has no idea what a flat is.

THAT is localization.

It's easy to confuse the two, because translation by default has to be localization, but localization includes having to tweak things to make it understandable by the target audience.

This CAN include meeting certain standards in order to make a rating and actually be able to distribute your game. Which is why there are games out there with some really absurd changes. It can also be as simple as making "harbour" into "harbor."

And it goes both ways. Japanese and Chinese games are equally known for censoring material from NA, we just never heard about it because we're not Japanese.

Hell THIS VERY GAME was censored when it was brought to China. So it's not like it's anything new.

[Fuz]

Again, you're talking about CENSORSHIP, not LOCALIZATION.

Learn the difference.

[鳳綺妃]

2 hours ago, Hidaru said:

Can someone from NC please comment on why the story was changed and left with plot holes?  Side quests fine but the story D: why?

 

They did, in this  beta thread here:

 

 

You shall need to search through a few pages, but the NC employee's responses are easy to find due to the yellow text he uses.

 

[WarBaby2]

So, even though this is a mature game, actual mature themes are being censored because the localization team deems them offensive? Yea, sounds the like the modern world we are living in... still, changing stuff simply because it offends ones personal sensitivities is just plain unprofessional.

[Aerasani]

5 hours ago, Fuz said:

Again, you're talking about CENSORSHIP, not LOCALIZATION.

Learn the difference.

 

No we're not.  Localization invokes adapting and changing elements of a work to fit into the culture of the country it's being brought into.  That includes removing things found offensive and wrong in the destination country that aren't objectionable in the origin country .  It also means you can ADD things that are offensive in the origin country but not the destination country.

[Aerasani]

3 hours ago, WarBaby2 said:

So, even though this is a mature game, actual mature themes are being censored because the localization team deems them offensive? Yea, sounds the like the modern world we are living in... still, changing stuff simply because it offends ones personal sensitivities is just plain unprofessional.

 

Sexism and misogyny is not a "mature theme".  Would you feel the same if they had removed blatant homophobia or racism?  It's actually the epitome of professionalism and business sense to remove things found offensive by a significant percentage of the population.