Censored for “Questionable” Material in Western Release

[Sylla]

1 minute ago, Shilen said:

You can't compare real life sexism to censorship in a game... But we're getting of-topic. Do you mind if we just leave it at this?

Not sure how is diferent, but yaeh we leave it here.

Same people will keep censoring games.

[Soulequilibrium]

As someone who loves to follow storylines in games and cares a great deal for the lore that establishes the world around these stories I have been very disheartened to learn the localisation has been handled very unprofessionally. And not just in text but also in voice. The game has mostly proven to be great but if I am to play the original creation through the "filter" that is NCWest and they show me that this is the mark they want to leave on the Korean product I am not instilled with any trust in their capabilities or convictions. As a result I am not inclined to pay for their services. If they show they are willing to do something with the negative feedback that has popped up repeatedly in various locations and provide an option to use the Korean voice audio as well as hire a more professional localisation team to give us a better translation without all the westernisation it would restore a large portion of my faith.

 

Considering NCSoft is a business and since it's money that matters I would like it to be known that with these actions you have lost a paying costumer unless you address them.

[Asuka]

1 hour ago, Soulequilibrium said:

As someone who loves to follow storylines in games and cares a great deal for the lore that establishes the world around these stories I have been very disheartened to learn the localisation has been handled very unprofessionally. And not just in text but also in voice. The game has mostly proven to be great but if I am to play the original creation through the "filter" that is NCWest and they show me that this is the mark they want to leave on the Korean product I am not instilled with any trust in their capabilities or convictions. As a result I am not inclined to pay for their services. If they show they are willing to do something with the negative feedback that has popped up repeatedly in various locations and provide an option to use the Korean voice audio as well as hire a more professional localisation team to give us a better translation without all the westernisation it would restore a large portion of my faith.

 

Considering NCSoft is a business and since it's money that matters I would like it to be known that with these actions you have lost a paying costumer unless you address them.

The problem is that ncsoft obviously doesn't understand that you can't "lure" people who would never even try a relatively niche product like this by making unnecessary changes. People who want to enjoy blade and soul are already determined, so to speak - not literally, but to an enough large extent for me to put it that way. They will only put away those people by providing "the world" with the butchered and non-authentic product and especially when they defecate on original writers', concept artists' etc. expressions. (whether or not the original makers agree is not the point. We are talking about localization and the way it's being done).

 

My mom will never ever play blade and soul. She has two grandchildren and pretty much doesn't differentiate between computer and a potato. My brother will never play blade and soul, as he is playing professional basketball and is totally a different type of personality and his gaming endeavors have never gone beyond playing fifa with 10 drunk buddies. My sister will never play blade and soul because she isn't interested in playing games.

MAJORITY of people who won't play blade and soul are not BORDERLINE CUSTOMERS. They will never play it, no matter how "westernized" or dumbed down it might be, no matter how hyped or marketed it might be. There might be some that are going to be lured and that spike will drop off quickly enough.

People who DO want to play blade and soul - want to play blade and soul. They don't want to play "a game that's kinda blade and soul but now with 75% more murica" or whatever. They deliberately and willingly want to experience the game, the product, the art piece known as blade and soul and they want THAT, not some derivative skeleton lookalike.

 

You can't market a fishing rod to someone who never was and never will be into fishing. Yes, there might be some outliers, but a fishing rod should be good at fishing, not good at being marketed. Because sooner or later, a fishing rod that's marketed godly but proves to be bad when it comes to fishing, will be shunned by the only people who, ironically, should be the customers - those who go fishing.

And if it's about an expression, an artsy product or a product that relies on art in any form (writing, visual arts, music, cinematography, acting), a very big part of that product is authenticity and the original notion.

 

That's why I repeatedly talk about Anna Karenina watching nascar races. People who want to get their hands on that novel and don't know russian, they want Anna Karenina - that's why they are seeking it.

That's why you don't change her into Ann Karen and make her go to nascar derbies. That's why you don't advertise it as "an incredible adventure of a beautiful woman in a stunning setting, full of action, betrayals and dead bodies". That does nothing. People who want that will not get that - or it will be horrible, because you turned the original masterpiece into some Expendables scenario, in which case, I'd recommend Expendables in the first place. The other group, the LARGER group, the ONLY group that will read the novel will be put off by these "localizations". Because they know what they are after and what they want to get. If they don't know, they WANT TO GET FAMILIAR WITH IT, that's why they want it.

 

People who say this is a business move, thinking that "westernizing" (since when "westernizing" should mean "dumbing down and cutting chunks"? Is Hollywood the entire western world?) blade and soul will bring larger revenue are mistaken. There is no way around it. No, my mother won't play blade and soul. Are there some potential players? Probably yes and all five of them will install the game. People have been hyped for this game for years - BECAUSE THEY WANT THIS GAME. It's so simple and logical.

 

 

Now, can a company lure in players into a game or a genre they would be indifferent or opposed to? Yes. But the game needs to be MECHANICALLY adapted for that. Blizzard did that with Heroes of the storm. They did that for me lol. I felt like I could play a moba for the first time because of accessibility and lack of cumbersome mechanics (I find them relic and cumbersome) and the fact that it was a new game with new concepts where I can go and start playing the genre.

BUT, HotS is BY DESIGN like that. The whole game is made with that in mind.

You will notice that they didn't do that with Starcraft 2. SC2 is very hard, harder than brood war, especially with the latest expansion. You CAN'T make my mom play starcraft without MECHANICALLY OVERHAULING THE GAME.

Blade and soul is exactly the same game, same engine, same anicancels, same classes, same combat, same everything, when it comes to the bare game anatomy. And that is something very important, as you can't make my mom play it. And you won't make her by making story alterations to suit her. Because the base game is the same old bns.

 

That isn't smart business move. If we are talking about good business moves with no regard to "morals" or whatever we should call it, that would be something along the lines of making a smartphone game with two skills, turnbased combat and bunch of microtransactions. Now THAT is something my mom, brother and sister could play if they were fed it through banners or commercials etc.

Since that hasn't been done and we got a mechanically identical blade and soul, making it less bladeandsoully isn't exactly a smart business move if you ask me. It has only a chance of putting off customers. And as for my mom, brother and sister, they will stay firmly uninterested as they were. So, math is pretty clear as to what they should have done.

[Pawl]

2 hours ago, Soulequilibrium said:

As someone who loves to follow storylines in games and cares a great deal for the lore that establishes the world around these stories I have been very disheartened to learn the localisation has been handled very unprofessionally. And not just in text but also in voice. The game has mostly proven to be great but if I am to play the original creation through the "filter" that is NCWest and they show me that this is the mark they want to leave on the Korean product I am not instilled with any trust in their capabilities or convictions. As a result I am not inclined to pay for their services. If they show they are willing to do something with the negative feedback that has popped up repeatedly in various locations and provide an option to use the Korean voice audio as well as hire a more professional localisation team to give us a better translation without all the westernisation it would restore a large portion of my faith.

 

Considering NCSoft is a business and since it's money that matters I would like it to be known that with these actions you have lost a paying costumer unless you address them.

i agree... i'm not gonna spend a cent on a butchered and censored game.

[鳳綺妃]

9 hours ago, AttacKat said:

They did, a senior editor that actually did the changes for one of the stories. But players still b*itch and whined thinking *THEY* own the product.

 

There is ONE fact, NCS KR owns the product, and KR gave NA the go ahead (and final approval) on all of the name/story changes. Nothing was done w/o KR review/approval. So people really need to accept that and STFU about it. Those stupid self-righteous websites are nothing but attention/hit grabbers.

 

"KR gave NA the go ahead (and final approval) on all of the name/story changes. Nothing was done w/o KR review/approval."

 

Could you please link the source for this? I recall LastWriterStanding mentioning the "higher ups", but that could still mean his bosses in NA. I don't recall him ever speaking of consulting with the Korean Devs/Team Bloodlust about the changes to names and story, only those "higher up on the food chain" which, once again, could merely mean higher ranking members of the North American team.

 

[MadBlue]

11 hours ago, Fuz said:

I worked in translation on some pretty important projects. You DO NOT alter the meaning of the original work. That's censorship, period.
You're wrong and you should educate yourself on the matter. And since I'm not your support teacher and I'm tired of wasting time with your inability to understand basic concepts, I'll stop here.
If you think it's right to censor a game or a book or an art piece to adapt to the "local market" you're a danger to culture and society and are no better than the nazis who thought it was right to burn books.
You should read Fahrenheit 451 and 1984. Or just see the Simpson's episode with Michelangelo's David.

Translation is not localization. It's a major part of it, sure, but much more goes into localization than just translation. These kinds of changes are always made when adapting something as complex as an MMO to a different market. There is no slippery slope from this to "Nazis burning books".

 

For example, cultural considerations are a big part of localization of video games:

Quote

Oftentimes localization changes include adjusting a game to consider specific cultural sensitivities. These changes may be self-enforced by the developers themselves, or enacted by national or regional rating boards (Video game content rating system). However, games are still sometimes released with controversial or insensitive material, which can lead to controversy or recall of the product.

Often parts of the storyline of games get altered to fit the audience they're being adapted for. Aion, for example, had massive changes from the Korean version to the Western version. As much as not being censored goes, the artwork wasn't censored. The storyline was localized to make it more accessible - and acceptable - to a more diverse Western audience.

 

[Torwyn]

You're still playing, 'Boob & Soul: Animu Weeaboo' so I wouldn't worry about missing out on much. Plenty of girls with sex moans, tiny bra's and thongs.

 

It is amusing though, changing a quest line but still shoving all this female form in your faces with poorly designed outfits.

[Lurkios]

The quest line wasn't the only thing they changed.

 

-Censored quests.

-Changed the main storyline entirely (there was time-travel).

-Simplified names/terms/story.

 

Apparently, us NA folks are too weak minded to make our own moral decisions, understand a story or separate words that sort of sound like a racist term from a racist term.

 

We got writers when we wanted translators, and our writers sucked.

[BasiliskEye]

Wow. epic tantrums going on here over an unimportant jokey side quest.

Hell, half the people in this thread didn't even read the article and are thinking the T and A was some how censored when the only cosmetic change in the entire game is actually LESS CLOTHING.

 

Reading this thread is just sad.

[Lurkios]

3 minutes ago, BasiliskEye said:

Wow. epic tantrums going on here over an unimportant jokey side quest.

Hell, half the people in this thread didn't even read the article and are thinking the T and A was some how censored when the only cosmetic change in the entire game is actually LESS CLOTHING.

 

Reading this thread is just sad.

 

Keep in mind that, while you may prefer to read a child's book over the original over the text, not everyone does. And I'd argue that the changes to the main storyline are far from "unimportant".

[BasiliskEye]

2 minutes ago, Lurkios said:

 

Keep in mind that, while you may prefer to read a child's book over the original over the text, not everyone does. And I'd argue that the changes to the main storyline are far from "unimportant".

Then go back to the Chinese version with the shitty machine translations and costumes that disappear after a month.

We already know the *cricket* story, what does it matter what they did with the localization, other then, it's the internet we must cry about everything on it?

 

Besides the time travel thing at the beginning of act 3 came completely out of nowhere and is never mentioned again in the original version.

[Asuka]

1 hour ago, Torwyn said:

You're still playing, 'Boob & Soul: Animu Weeaboo' so I wouldn't worry about missing out on much. Plenty of girls with sex moans, tiny bra's and thongs.

 

It is amusing though, changing a quest line but still shoving all this female form in your faces with poorly designed outfits.

That argumentation is getting old.

 

In all seriousness now, without snarky wittiness, would you not consider what you just wrote as a pure strawman?

 

Is the whole "you got boobz lol stop crying lol nobody took your waifuz" argument some kind of deus ex machina argumentation when it comes to COMPLETELY different kind of complaint based on a COMPLETELY unrelated notion and principle?

 

Is the changing of the story's atmosphere, all the npc's, names (mind you, names aren't changed to "john" and "robert" just simply mashed together so you can't memorize them), voicing everybody like in a GI Joe show or power rangers or hong kong movie dubs, main character's disposition and so on and so forth, that is all unimportant?

 

Look, for you maybe this is a boob simulator and it loses nothing when butchered in other areas, for others (and I am willing to bet my life it's the majority) it's a dip into the established fantasy setting as is, without the need to go to pirate servers or learn a very difficult language.

 

And yes, I would consider Anna Karenina going to nascar races "because localization" a HUGE deal, even though it's like ten pages out of three hundred and it doesn't affect the essence of the story per se. Are we really discussing things like this? Or worse, are we "discussing" them in this manner? If a compaint is OBVIOUSLY about a poor localization and translation and butchering of the authenticity of the original IP, what urge you have to "counter" it with a snarky UNRELATED strawman  and an unbelievable spin?

 

If we were talking on Tolstoi forums about nascar Karenina and people complained, you would tell them that they are, I don't know, rusofiles masturbating to aristocracy and exotic setting and that they still have the love/choice/family story in the book.

Your line of reasoning is unfathomable to me. Really, if you aren't trolling, which I think you aren't as it seems you are honest with your reply - how on earth did you manage to spin the notion of the complaint to "you have boobs why are you complaining"? What boobs, what are you talking about? 

[Asuka]

55 minutes ago, BasiliskEye said:

Then go back to the Chinese version with the shitty machine translations and costumes that disappear after a month.

We already know the *cricket* story, what does it matter what they did with the localization, other then, it's the internet we must cry about everything on it?

 

Besides the time travel thing at the beginning of act 3 came completely out of nowhere and is never mentioned again in the original version.

So, you are considering the "this is the best we have" as a valid argument?

 

Does the fact that it's better to play on low ping etc. somehow erase the complaint in the first place?

 

Does the fact that people who are complaining are mostly going to begrudgingly continue playing change anything about the validity of the complaint?

 

Those are unrelated things. The complaint is valid. For you, it might be exaggerated, but to me, it reeks of a very bad approach and concept and it might not be the last we see. Regardless of whether the complaint is overblown, what is the point of your post. If I complained about my internet provider would you tell me that I always have a choice and live in a cave? The fact that people won't go back to the asian versions for obvious reasons does nothing to undermine the validity of complaint.

[Asuka]

1 hour ago, MadBlue said:

Translation is not localization. It's a major part of it, sure, but much more goes into localization than just translation. These kinds of changes are always made when adapting something as complex as an MMO to a different market. There is no slippery slope from this to "Nazis burning books".

Even with a heavy localization, a la modern shakespear's movie adaptations with college teens in 20th century and all that, you can do all that and do it properly and with a certain quality.

I mean, localization means to, well, localize something so it's more approachable to a targeted culture audience etc.

So, are we retarded then? I mean, why is every single npc in the game voiced by scooby doo and has meme lines? Why is every moral ambiguity erased and we are left with disney-esque butchered product with cartoonish personalities? Why have the names been changed - into asian names, but only harder to remember and harder to connect and goofy-sounding (dodan vs do dan). What does that accomplish? If you are talking about localization (I would far more like a translation, but ok, let's talk localization), why not name them "John" or something? It would be better than tutti and frutti. If we are to localize. Because they should have normal names, localized or not.

Why is that quest changed when the notion of the quest is perfectly relatable in the west? TO ADD TO THAT, the myth about stealing clothes from fairies/nymphs/dryads is the staple in many WESTERN mythologies. And if we are talking about the "book burning feelz" approach - even in that case, the original quest had a negative message about the whole thing.

The fact that the game is localized does not mean it should be below standards and it does not mean that you should make completely absurd and unnecessary changes.

 

All that aside, I am against localization in the first place (if you want to "localize", remake a movie/book/game/story/painting, call it, I don't know "sword spirit: f-ck yeah" and write that is inspired by blade and soul). But you know what, if I were a total localization supporter, I could only be more disappointed, in the same sense that a basketball fan would be more disappointed by a bad basketball game than someone who dislikes basketball.

 

The localization tag only means the game is localized, it doesn't automatically mean that said localization must be sloppy, unprofessional, butchered and with completely nonsensical solutions among other things.

Also, it doesn't help that apparently majority of players would prefer a simple translation. I have no stats for this, but I am pretty sure that for an exotic cultural IP, one would want to delve into, well, exotic and cultural IP, not hamburgers.

[VocalMagic]

I want to ruin the careers of the localization team.

[Sigma081]

Personally I love it when my M rated games are given the 4Kids treatment and toned down to PG by a carebear localization team who knows better than me what kind of content is appropriate for me to play! It's freaking awesome!  I hope they put in a patch to cover up some of the more revealing outfits, and change all the Korean names to Western style names to further protect my fragile, sensitive little feelings. :D

[Poeticintellect]

cant say i care im having fun either way minus the regular technical setbacks.

[Sylla]

4 hours ago, Asuka said:

 a hell of text

tldr but you got a good point there

I think the big mistake every online game has is to be hosted in usa. They should start hosting them somewhere else, with more healthy people.

Every single game that lands on na will be censored, even when they promiosed* to do not do it.

[Wiffle]

Ermurgahd, this discussion: so lame.

 

If you don't like localization of any kind just learn Korean, move to S. Korea and never consume anything foreign ever again. (you can apply this to any foreign material you don't like the localization of as well, just substitute language and country) Hell, move to N. Korea if you want more authenticity and you think S. Korea has been too influenced by western culture.

 

Meanwhile, the servers are overrun with bots and spammers. Of all the stupid things to complain about... News Flash: Games from Asia have been getting "censored" since the dawn of time. (exaggeration - not the actual dawn of time, which was probably around 1947 or something - little known fact there) For example, we are still calling the evil military dude in Street Fighter as M. Bison, the Spanish matador is Vega and the boxer is Balrog. Crap ain't gonna change. Believe it!

[TheLastAsterisk]

Did they actually change the default naked underwear for N/A?! Is NA the only version where we don't have black lingerie? I am quite sadden by this news. If someone could elaborate or clarify this for me I would appreciate it this. I'd try searching on google, came with no results.

 

I'm talking about the source from this. http://nichegamer.com/2015/11/report-blade-soul-alteredcensored-for-questionable-material-in-western-release/

[Sylla]

23 minutes ago, Wiffle said:

Ermurgahd, this discussion: so lame.

 

If you don't like localization of any kind just learn Korean, move to S. Korea and never consume anything foreign ever again. (you can apply this to any foreign material you don't like the localization of as well, just substitute language and country) Hell, move to N. Korea if you want more authenticity and you think S. Korea has been too influenced by western culture.

 

Meanwhile, the servers are overrun with bots and spammers. Of all the stupid things to complain about... News Flash: Games from Asia have been getting "censored" since the dawn of time. (exaggeration - not the actual dawn of time, which was probably around 1947 or something - little known fact there) For example, we are still calling the evil military dude in Street Fighter as M. Bison, the spanish matador is Vega and the boxer is Balrog. Crap ain't gonna change. Believe it!

And the ping? Wait, are you asking him to move to another country just for a game?

 

I lose faith on humanity every time.

[Gamerchick]

Ugh, this again..

[Wiffle]

According to the State of the Internet report from Akamai for Q1 2013, the average Internet speed in South Korea during the quarter was 14.2 Mbit/s, with a peak Internet connection speed of 44.8 Mbit/s.[11]

 

As of 2013, South Korea has the fastest average internet connection in the world at 21.0 Mbit/s according to the report State of the Internet published by Akamai Technologies,[12] which is over 40% faster than the next fastest country, Japan, whose average internet speed is 12.9 Mbit/s. South Korea's speed is almost six times faster than the world average of 3.8 Mbit/s, and more than twice as fast as the United States at 10 Mbit/s. It is important to note that 100 Mbit/s services are the average standard in urban South Korean homes and the country is rapidly rolling out 1Gbit/s connections or 1,000 Mbit/s, at $20 per month,[13] which is roughly 263 times faster than the world average and 100 times faster than the average speed in the United States.[14]

 

(from wikipedia concerning internet speeds in S. Korea) $20! For 100 Mbps! Holee crap. Ping shouldn't be an issue since he'll be right there.

[PFunDaddy]

Something people have to understand, especially with regards to the censorship issue, is that these sorts of plotlines involving sexism, or racism, or homophobia ARE controversial in Western countries, and some developers don't want that controversy to dominate discussion of the game, and would rather have their game be a game than a front for discussing racy topics.

 

If you could have run around in lingerie, for example, a third of people would think it was funny, a third would get nosebleeds because their life doesn't have enough sexual stimulation, and a third would get offended or put off because of the inherent gender imbalance in underwear (it's hard to argue that a jockstrap commands quite as much attention as a black lace undergarment thing), or because they have some bizarre aversion to the human body. They made the choice to get rid of these things that could be topics for  discussion simply because it would attract a kind of attention that they don't want.

 

At the end of the day, you can whine all you want about how they changed the storyline. They won't care at all because you're still giving them money AND they don't have to deal with a billion offended emails about social hot topics every day.

[Perhilion]

Politically correct prudes and wanna-bees should get a life.