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TheRisingBlade

!Rigged

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16 hours ago, TheRisingBlade said:

I feel like the blight weapon drops are rigged, due to the fact that i went through the dungeon over 15 times...

 

 

 

AND I STILL DON'T HAVE A *cricket* LYNBLADE. I've literally gotten every other weapon for every other class

 


So is it just RNG trolling me, or is it actually programmed to be this way

Well one thing that doesn't help is Warlock weapons being in-game already.

 

Also I think that the specific weapon you need is rigged to be a bit lower drop chance than others just to make more "playtime" because there really isn't alot of content atm.

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Just now, 2501 said:

 

They aren't. That's not how probabilities function. 8 chests = 66% to obtain, not 100%.

what i meant is each chest have a chance of 1/8 of getting your weapon, if you just open one at a time chance will always be greatly against you. 

 

so say u have 10 chest, it will 1- (p (not your weapon)^10= 1-(7/8)^10=  73.69   VS open one at a time 12.5%

 

From my experience with 7 characters now, 1 CN, 2 TW, and just Capped 2 in NA.... It is not rigged, I save 10 and I usually get the weapon around 5th up, usually never finish using the chest. Few times i got my weapon on the last chest too

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10 minutes ago, 2501 said:

 

They aren't. That's not how probabilities function. 8 chests = 66% to obtain, not 100%. Timing also has no effect.

 

In fact, if you wait until the end of the universe, there will undoubtedly be some user who never obtains one after 1000+ chests.

TEXTBOOK Approach, timing have no effect, but really it depends on how the probability is programmed in the game, I am an animator and learned fundamental of game coding as elective. It is unsmart for the game to run a simulation of a dice roll calculation everytime someone opens a chest; instead the norm of coding probability in game, it will pre-generate a random huge list, say 10k, of already decided weapon(same as you shuffle songs in your smart device), same with all the item you open with a probability in the game. Then a player opens a chest and will automatically get the next item in the list. So in this case, the rate of probability does affect your chance. More ever, you gotta try it to believe me. 

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2501   
1 hour ago, SuperBlade said:

what i meant is each chest have a chance of 1/8 of getting your weapon, if you just open one at a time chance will always be greatly against you.

 

No it won't. The chance for a single chest is always 1 in 8. This doesn't change no matter how hard you try, even on consecutive tries (hence, why some might wait until infinity, because they never roll their number). Also, in your provided example, 26% of users would require more than 10 chests (just reproducing what I posted earlier).

 

Furthermore, I didn't want to post a formula, since the intent was to realize whether devs/mods are actually aware of the implications of the system they've designed (they were not in other games where I brought this issue up, which was alarming, but they saw the light and removed it).
 

Your experience is also anecdotal, and the intention here is also not to post lucky lottery winners. Your numbers over 7 chars don't average out either, hence atypical experience.

 

- The problem here is with the percentage of 'losers', or those left out (excluded) from progression unfairly due to these circumstances.

 

Personally, 2nd char, I got one on the 3rd chest. However, first character required approx. 20 attempts.

 

This isn't a 'personal' issue of mine however. It's simply meant to reflect on reality as a whole, and user experience, not just my own. Which is why I originally left anecdotes out of my response.

 

Progression items should not lead to progression-gate. Cosmetics; no problem.

Edited by 2501

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2 minutes ago, 2501 said:

 

No it won't. The chance for a single chest is always 1 in 8. This doesn't change no matter how hard you try, even on consecutive tries (hence, why some might wait until infinity, because they never roll their number). Also, in your provided example, 26% of users would require more than 10 chests (just reproducing what I posted earlier).

 

Furthermore, I didn't want to post a formula, since the intent was to realize whether devs/mods are actually aware of the implications of the system they've designed.
 

Your experience is also anecdotal, and the intention here is also not to post lucky lottery winners. Your numbers over 7 chars don't average out either, hence atypical experience.

 

The problem here is with the percentage of 'losers', or those left out (excluded) from progression unfairly due to these circumstance.

 

Personally, 2nd char, I got one on the 3rd chest. However, first character required approx. 20 attempts.

 

This isn't a 'personal' issue of mine however. It's simply meant to reflect on reality as a whole, and user experience, not just my own. Which is why I originally left anecdotes out of my response.

 

 

im not trying to say i know exactly whats going on, and hey im trying to help no reason arguing over something you and I are unsure of. What Im saying it depends, but likely not necessary to rig weapon because what stops your progression in this game is not weapon material but other ones, soulstone trans stone etc ( not saying have to be true). I agree with you but what I am saying does make sense to me as well. I should mention used to open chest one by one and I past the 50th bar for some items. The problem fixed for me when opening 10 chest at a time. I mean hey, I am pretty sure a lot of ppl tried to open case one by one and doesnt have luck, why not try 10 at time, wouldn't hurt them more especially they already tried 1 by 1 100 times. Just trying to help. Just saying timing might be a factor depends how they code in the probability.

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2501   
28 minutes ago, SuperBlade said:

 

im not trying to say i know exactly whats going on, and hey im trying to help no reason arguing over something you and I are unsure of. What Im saying it depends, but likely not necessary to rig weapon because what stops your progression in this game is not weapon material but other ones, soulstone trans stone etc ( not saying have to be true). I agree with you but what I am saying does make sense to me as well. I should mention used to open chest one by one and I past the 50th bar for some items. The problem fixed for me when opening 10 chest at a time. I mean hey, I am pretty sure a lot of ppl tried to open case one by one and doesnt have luck, why not try 10 at time, wouldn't hurt them more especially they already tried 1 by 1 100 times. Just trying to help. Just saying timing might be a factor depends how they code in the probability.

 

Semantics: Random seed usually, not pre-generated list. Even if the list were pre-generated, it's still random-seeded (otherwise, they'd be exploitable). Absolutely no difference. It's still possible to generate an entire series which excludes a single roll/number. Only RPGs where I've witnessed a pre-gen list were single-player only.

 

All the stones are available through surveys and quest rewards. I've only needed to buy 1 viridian transmute up to level 36. Only blight fangs were required (approx. 20). But those are needed only at level 30+, long after said progression item (still need to run dungeon 10 times for +400 hp achieve), and they're not RNG-based, you're guaranteed at least 1 from chest (they are also tradable, despite being purple).

 

End-game progression is another matter, which I cannot comment on at this time. This is in regards to early-game progression-gating.

 

Furthermore, waiting until you have 10 chests is inefficient, because if you get one on your first attempt, you now have 9 unused chests which are simply a waste of a key (and your time farming them). I'll also add to this anecdote that I did exactly that on my 1st char: Opened a dozen of them at once, since the first 3-4 were useless, and I expected/estimated the chances to be a lot lower. No effect on the final result (took 20 attempts).

 

This is simply speculation.

Edited by 2501

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Iduno   

Tbh the actual problem seems to be that the only weapon worth even looking at in this game is your Hongmoon weapon, in other games if you aren't getting a certain weapon you can just go off and find/buy something else and make do, here to keep up with damage you need to upgrade 1 specific weapon using 1 specific other weapon which is a random drop that isn't tradeable or even transferable between characters on the same account.

 

I've been lucky to get the blight weapons for both my characters with an evening each but this system does seem pretty bad if I'm honest.

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6 minutes ago, 2501 said:

 

Semantics: Random seed usually, not pre-generated list. Even if the list were pre-generated, it's still random-seeded (otherwise, they'd be exploitable). Absolutely no difference, It's still possible to generate an entire series which excludes a single roll/number.

 

All the stones are available through surveys and quest rewards. I've only need to buy 1 viridian transmute up to level 36.

 

End-game progression is another matter, which I cannot comment on at this time. This is in regards to early-game progression-gating.

 

Furthermore, waiting until you have 10 chests is inefficient, because if you get one on your first attempt, you now have 9 unused chests which are simply a waste of a key (and your time farming them). I'll also add to this anecdote that I did exactly that on my 1st char: Opened a dozen of them at once, since the first 3-4 were useless, and I estimated the chances a lot lower than expected. No effect on the final result (took 20 attempts).

 

This is simply speculation.

 

Your point is? Sorry unlucky individuals. Well Im talking exactly about late game to end game progression, when weapon material is the least compare to every other materials needed... Why not just save up rather than open one by one. It seems more and more like you are just trying to "out smart me", I shared my opinion, and also agreed with your opinion which I heard the "first time". My method is the efficient way that I was told by my clan elite all the way back and a lot of elite player is doing this all these years I been playing ( say I don't have a good reason to defend it but hey it worked for alot of people who seeks fast progression and I am one of the super fast progression, already making second round of moonwater transformation stone, people whose there will know how fetal this is) i have all weapon material needed from profane up to powahran, just no storm siren, which still makes 5 weapon all prepare. If you don't wanna try my way just don't do it yourself, don't reject it for everyone else. At the end of the day I am just trying to share... and you?  trying to say:"sorry poor *cricket*, you are just unlucky"?

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This is the best dungeon in the game. How dare you complain, when we are so lucky to have this dungeon so early in the game.

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1 minute ago, totmacher said:

This is the best dungeon in the game. How dare you complain, when we are so lucky to have this dungeon so early in the game.

 

agree, there will always people who like and dislike the system. I am used to this and its perfectly fine and fun for me

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2501   
1 minute ago, totmacher said:

This is the best dungeon in the game. How dare you complain, when we are so lucky to have this dungeon so early in the game.

 

Lol. Hold on, let me pull out my trusty sarcasm detector. :D

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2501   
8 minutes ago, SuperBlade said:

 

Well Im talking exactly about late game to end game progression, when weapon material is the least compare to every other materials needed...

 

people whose there will know how fetal this is

 

and you?  trying to say:"sorry poor *cricket*, you are just unlucky"?

 

You may be in the wrong thread then. This thread is regarding Blackram specifically, but generally also progression-gated items. Also, most (if not all) transmute stones/etc... can be bought on the market, are farmable, or guaranteed drops.

 

This renders the argument futile (not fetal).

 

Actually, as I stated previously: I was NOT unlucky, but OTHERS are... The end, this now borders on abuse.

 

Edited by 2501

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1 minute ago, 2501 said:

 

You may be in the wrong thread then, this thread is regard Blackram specifically, but generally also progression-gated items. Also, most (if not all) transmute stones/etc... can be bought on the market, are farmable, or guaranteed drops.

 

This renders the argument futile (not fetal).

 

Actually, as I stated previously: I was NOT unlucky, but OTHERS are... The end, this now borders on abuse.

 

 

kk im out, you win... I take everything back. You ARE right, for my every other character im going to open chest one buy one. End with disappointment every-time ending up with not my weapon and no more chest. Oh yea, that feels great compared to a almost guaranteed chance of getting your weapon with only matter of how many keys wasted. Take out your sarcasm detector as I start using your efficient way you are soooo confident about.

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So any rng is rigged because you got the bad end of it. Great.

How about one of the wheels of fate in cinderlands? its always drop on 8 no matter the character or how many essence you give it. Now that is rigged.

It took me about 16 tries to get my Lynblade while others got their weapon first time or had to do about 30+ runs. Not gunna waste my time explaining equation half the people will even get to come up with a hypothesis when it still matters on pure luck. You can try any method people say and it might work and it might not again

 

LUCK

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2501   
24 minutes ago, BestWaifu said:

LUCK

 

Such a thing does not exist. It's probability. :D

 

All carefully crafted, abusive schemes, especially when speaking of gambling/lotteries/RNG-cash-shop-boxes (real cash).

 

Simply because people are not very good at modelling reality (mostly because it isn't taught in school as part of the standard curriculum, but also bcs it's hard to wrap your brain around, especially when the odds of winning are small, when chances are reduced exponentially, it really affects that low-end).

Edited by 2501

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If you think its abusive then you have to get over it or do without. And seeing as this is a weapon necessary you have to get over it.

If you want to do without may as well find another game with even more rng. Just keep trying and you'll get you weapon eventually.

Its not like you are paying real cash money at a chance to get a blight weapon.

 

Instead of being determined be more tenacious about it. Seeing as determination with bad results just end up with you getting upset over something not worth that much stress.

Edited by BestWaifu

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2501   
5 minutes ago, BestWaifu said:

If you think its abusive then you have to get over it or do without. And seeing as this is a weapon necessary you have to get over it.

If you want to do without may as well find another game with even more rng. Just keep trying and you'll get you weapon eventually.

Its not like you are paying real cash money at a chance to get a blight weapon.

 

Instead of being determined be more tenacious about it. Seeing as determination with bad results just end up with you getting upset over something not worth that much stress.

 

inb4: If you read the thread, you'd realize I'm not complaining. I'm advocating on behalf of other users, who are treated unfairly due to this system, being the losers, or those left out (excluded) from progression.

 

The issue here was not that the boxes are real-money-based, but that it leads to a halt in progression for approx 5% of users (I was simply commenting on the greater social aspect of this probability problem).

 

I really don't like these 'get over it' comments. They're disturbing.

Edited by 2501

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Erratic   

I spent 80 NC Coin to get my weapon on the very first run. Yes, the RNG sucks. They want to sell those keys, and I suspect they're doing a very good job.

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I know youre not complaining but voicing out for others is going to give you the remarks back.

No matter how unfair it is there isnt a thing you can do about it but keep trying.

I did that dgn at lvl 20 didnt get my blade till about lvl28 (cuz i stopped to quest for a bit)

There are going to be progression halts at times if people let them get them down then its not in control of the company that is hosting the game not developing.

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Herbs   
On 1/24/2016 at 1:48 AM, Lock6 said:

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear you've been having bad luck.

 

I can assure you the drop rates are not rigged in any way, it's just that sometimes you can roll a dice 60 times and not get a single 6.

 

You will get your drop eventually.

It is totally rigged, Try two different characters, you will immediately get the weapon you needed on wrong class, but not your own, then as soon as you switch back, holy shit guess what? the weapon stops dropping. 

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