PVE and Survival in End Game

[Pent]

Hello,

 

So here is an interesting dilemma. I  recently just hit 45 BD and am realizing that some dungeons are just plain unforgiving. I'm not talking about drops or RNG, rather I'm referring to the ability to survive in all 4 of the end game dungeons, that I'm currently aware of. Every time I enter any of the "blue" or "purple" rated dungeons, I go in expecting to die at least once. Now I'm not trying to convince anyone that this game needs to be easier, but there comes a time when there is a line between an acceptable level of difficulty and a ridiculous one. There is the possibility that I'm bad, but from what I seeing it seems to more of a mechanical problem. Boss and trash damage seems to be random to me. I never know when to expect to be hit, unless I'm solo. I can handle myself solo just fine but when I'm in a group it becomes another issue entirely. There were a number of pulls in the spider dungeon, the name escapes me, where I dropped dead and I hadn't even done anything to the trash yet. I was literally just trying to target.  The bosses are 10 times worse, understandably. But dying to bosses shouldn't be normal. I understand that coils are a mechanic in the game but is the game really that hard that the par expectancy for dying is 3 times on some bosses? Can anyone shed some light on what I can do to better my chances of survival in dungeons? Should I respec my talents into a defensive set? I have no idea what to do and eventually I will get tired of failing and being sub par in PVE. I already accept I'm bad at PVP but I really want to improve in PVE...

[Jewlee]

I surely hope they don't make any bit of this game easier. Because the game is new, I feel like most classes don't try and synergize with their teammates. It's hack and slash and button smash. 

The hardest dungeons need to require the coordination (and class compositions) to have a chance.

The game (to public) isn't even a week old. I don't want the end-game to already be a breeze. 

[Snarftastic]

Reading this is actually making me want to give this game a shot, get a sub, level up and play if end game is actually hard. I'm already a bit sold on the PvP side...

 

 

[Pent]

As I said, I'm not suggesting to make it easier. I'm fine with it being difficult. But failure can only dealt with so many times before frustration sets in. There has to be a better way to survive. The bosses don't really give you any warning that an AoE is going to hit. This game doesn't prescribe to the cliche "triad" of classes so in essence it is more solo oriented in that regard.  By this I mean you have the best chance of keeping yourself alive. It isn't just end game that's like this. Many of the "rare" monsters towards end game like the Jianshi share this problem. I've read that BD has issues in PVE/PVP but there is no way that it was designed to be as frustrating as it is right now. I really do like BD but I don't like failing at the only part of the game I care about.

[Jewlee]

For many bosses, there are visual indicators of where an attack will hit. This is maybe turned off for higher level dungeons. I feel like this game does a pretty good job of animating an attack, windups and swings which don't require too much in regards to ground visuals. Bosses will all have patterns and ability ques. I think more practice or better gear is your best option. You can also try and find help from more experienced/skilled players. 

[Hanashi]

My personal opinion is that it's too early to complain about something like this.. the game just got out and most people still have to learn how to correctly play their character expecially in a party... i think we might be able to talk about this maybe in some months if nothing happens with player improving their gameplay skills in pve ^^

[BigJ01]

You just need some practice, especially as a BD. As you get into these tougher dungeons you may need to change your skill points around to give you more iframes, which BD has plenty of. And your group also needs to be good in order for things to go smooth. I died a lot at first too as KFM but now i run poh 4 man a few times a day with no deaths. Actually i think sometimes the big 4 can be more unforgiving than poh.

[Pent]

For windups and physical melee hits, its easy to see the animation. But for mobs that are beasts? There is no weapon to watch. I just did that manta ray thing in Blackram 3 times and did not get credit simply because I never made it through the fight, ever. The ice move caught me every time. It has a blank warning to use a defensive but there is no defensive that is being used when I click space. This is just one example. The game might be "new" and I definitely don't qualify as a vet for this game but I know there are people out there who played the other versions and can give advice. I'm not trying to complain, just seek guidance. Additionally I am unsure what iframes are? What does this reference? I guess I just need practice but it's frustrating when it's just death after death.

As for gear, I guess what I have is considered average. All the usual stuff is upgraded to the blackram level except for the sword because I can't afford the moon transformation stone. I did most of the blackram dailies with a group, was hoping to do them all but frustration over the manta ray got the better of me. What gear should I be aiming for? I thought the hongmoon stuff stayed with you the entire game? Should I respec into a defensive spec? I don't think that would really help for what it is I think I'm suffering from here. Thanks again for the input.

[blkcat13]

If you are playing end game content almost all bosses at your current level have skills that can party wipe and you have to use invisibility skills to counter that for the BD you can use Z tier3form2 for a 5 sec invisibility, cast this before he uses the skill. Or once you get used to his attack pattern he attacks 3 times, you can Q his first attack E his second and then SS for the third. requires abit more practice then the first but once you can dodge the attacks with QESS you can change the Z skill to increase DPS instead

[Unskilled banana]

You are just bad. Get better items, get better with your personal playing skills. End game dungeons are pretty hard.

[Cadencia]

Hello Pent,

 

its all about watching the enemie. As soon as you know what the bosses do, you will see how easy it is.

Brightstone Ruins, last boss:

Green mob comes out:

1. Posion split straight forward

2. Melee AE 180 ° front

3. Melee AE 180 ° Back

Now the mob should already got enough DMG to resist everything

4. Jump one person with second highest aggro (easy avoidable with just running around)

5. 3 Jumps to the person with Aggro. This person just have to run in one direction or in circles. If this jump hits the person, Threat he got gets reduced

6. Jump back to his position

 

Blue mob comes out:

1. Jump on Person with Aggro from Green mob

2. Melee Attack Front

3. Melee AE 180 ° front (Maybe the AE was first)

 

Green mob comes out:

1. Jump on Target with Aggro from Blue mob

2. Like when he first comes out

 

Now to the mantaray.

 

1. Melee AE 180 ° Front

2. Two Meleeattacks on Aggroholder

3. One Meleeattack on Aggroholder

 

Repeat till special.

Everyone runs to one of the crabs. As soon as the timer runs down, just use an Avoidskill (wait till shortly before the bar comes to the green pike). I usually use two Avoids.

Wait for ~ 3 secs. Kill crab. Ice should end right in time. Boss dives and Jumps up. As soon as he is in air, move closer. Block him while he charges. That way you can start dmg.

 

Its nothing else. Its always the same. And that goes for all bosses. Just for info...in the Spider dungeon, there are leaping spiders. And they leap. And if they leap and hit you, they hit hard. So if someone pulls...just wait. Because the will leap for him. But they may hit you.

For training its the best to get the PVP soulshield for max HP. You wont do that much DMG, but you got a lot of HP. Now its no problem if you do some errors. As soon as you feel comfortable with the boss, switch to a PVE soulshield

[GameOverx]

@Cadencia Well done with that information. :D

[DBug]

Compared to the state I last played the game before it's NA release, it seems like most dungeons have gotten easier. I'm still 3 levels out from level 45, but if the mechanics are the same then it's really a matter of sustaining yourself long enough to do enough damage. I found the monkey dungeon to be the most difficult due to the number of mobs and some hard to read elements with the boss.

[Victorion]

I love how the end-game dungeon actually pose a challenge. Kind of reminds me of the anime Log Horizon (recommended to see, if you´re into anime that revolves around online gaming)

[Yancha]

Eventually itll be easy enough to do thanks to power creep/progression so making it easier now may not be a bright idea

[Pinwheel]

Coming from pre-NA release version, most things have been tuned down a bit, and there weren't even attack indicators with hard edges before that told you the exact range. Right now a lot of people don't know how to properly play their own class, let alone how to play WITH a party and not actively against it (like immediately picking things up out of taunt range leading to it running free instead of beating the lump of cat on the ground or pulling a boss when nobody has more than 20% hp).

 

Iframes are brief moments of temporary immunity, like hitting SS, that you have to learn to time to avoid getting hit. Your #1 priority is not dying, so if you see an indicator popping up around you, make sure you are out of it before you worry about attacking.

 

As a fresh 45, pretty much everything is going to be smearing you across the floor if you get hit, but it doesn't take too much to crank your defenses up enough to survive. The belt and soul shields from the moonwater token vendor in hogshead hamlet are a great place to start. Grab a few people and farm up some of the elite crit soul shields in poh24 to bolt onto them and you'll have some workable crit (which will heal you with leech gems) while you work on getting your money together to buy moon stones to combine your wpn and farm poh6 for the purple soul shields there.

 

Mostly though, it's just gonna be learning the fights themselves, it will get significantly easier the more you keep at it though. Soon you won't be dying to anything except people trying to get their party killed, and by then you can still pull it off w/o getting killed half the time.

[JunK]

honestly its the same thing with every game that comes out with new content. it absolutely destroys people until they get used to it. once they get used to it, the dungeon, the bosses, and the build specs that destroy them specifically....they become basically trivial.

 

im looking forward to finishing my leveling up to where the game really begins, getting into the process of getting to know these dungeons and bosses.

i remember playing TERA when it first came out....now THOSE were some tough bosses when they released a couple of the dungeons that got added shortly after release. only a couple guilds were able to clear them for months.

as soon as you get to know the mechanics, it just becomes muscle memory

[azraelkun]

On 24/1/2016 at 4:00 AM, Pent said:

Hello,

 

So here is an interesting dilemma. I  recently just hit 45 BD and am realizing that some dungeons are just plain unforgiving. I'm not talking about drops or RNG, rather I'm referring to the ability to survive in all 4 of the end game dungeons, that I'm currently aware of. Every time I enter any of the "blue" or "purple" rated dungeons, I go in expecting to die at least once. Now I'm not trying to convince anyone that this game needs to be easier, but there comes a time when there is a line between an acceptable level of difficulty and a ridiculous one. There is the possibility that I'm bad, but from what I seeing it seems to more of a mechanical problem. Boss and trash damage seems to be random to me. I never know when to expect to be hit, unless I'm solo. I can handle myself solo just fine but when I'm in a group it becomes another issue entirely. There were a number of pulls in the spider dungeon, the name escapes me, where I dropped dead and I hadn't even done anything to the trash yet. I was literally just trying to target.  The bosses are 10 times worse, understandably. But dying to bosses shouldn't be normal. I understand that coils are a mechanic in the game but is the game really that hard that the par expectancy for dying is 3 times on some bosses? Can anyone shed some light on what I can do to better my chances of survival in dungeons? Should I respec my talents into a defensive set? I have no idea what to do and eventually I will get tired of failing and being sub par in PVE. I already accept I'm bad at PVP but I really want to improve in PVE...

Dont worry mate just keep doing those dgs n u will learn them also get poh soul shield n search for a pve build for each dg.

For example even in mini boss i change 1 2 skills smoke screen resist  to party or to stealth depends the boss.

Try stuff with ur build n u will get there

[Benitora]

At the Moment people are just Button Mashing without Learning to Chain skills and Co-ordinate with their party remember this isn't a Face Roll MMO where you can Leeeeroy Dungeons with half decent gear you will see Dungeons become Easier with proper Gear Upgrades and a good party DONT go trying to Solo everything this isnt WOW where the game has been dummed down.

[Lelit]

If your latency is bad (mine is terrible) you just die... and never know why.  Have a *hug*!

[CountRiario]

End game dungeons.... hard?

 

All of these dungeons are basically tutorials at this point in time. They're super easy and can even be solo'd easily.

 

Just a tip: Get really good at using your i-frame skills. IF you cannot do 4 man PoH without dying (bosses that have no indicators of what and where the moves will be, and can only be dodged by using i-frames, you'ren ot even going to last in the level 50 dungeons.

 

If you're struggling on these bosses, you really really really need to improve before trying to later stuff.