How to deal with summoner, destroyer as assassin?

[AbsoluteZer0]

Notthing to say about summoner too OP 9/10 match with them are lose!! 

And the spin to win destroyer are non sense instance spin with immune to everything! 

Any tip or show me ur assassin Pvp skill point

is greatly appreciated!! 

[Foomps]

for destroyers, keep running away from them until your tab 1 combo is up. Don't try to fight them for too long just poke and run and play out the time. You will score higher and win the round, also save your tab for when they rage.

[TxSilverxT]

15 minutes ago, Foomps said:

for destroyers, keep running away from them until your tab 1 combo is up. Don't try to fight them for too long just poke and run and play out the time. You will score higher and win the round, also save your tab for when they rage.

Careful when you tab to not tab in the beginning of their spin or It'll be resisted and the start to a tab day.

 

id like to learn more about the Sin vs Dest match up, as well,if other sin players would like to put some input in this?

[Ichimonji420]

And remember to use the Q ability and backstep often as possible keep poison stacks up

[TakunDes]

with Destroyers you have to be extremely careful and not get caught. just stay hidden all the time and let them spin non stop. im on gold 1880 rating all the matches are against Destroyers, LBM and Summoners.

 

Des and LBM gets more balanced when we have the lv50 patch/ hp pool. they are extremely strong right now due to their massive burst.

[Flax]

When it comes to Destroyers, it's as people have said. Playing passive is important, after all you can't really approach them while they're spinning. There are two main types, the red Fury type and the blue one. If they're red (damage-oriented), they only have one escape, so you can zone them out and then go in for the kill once they blew their tab escape. 

 

If they're the blue one though, you'll have to play very patient and zone them out for most of the match (they'll have two escapes after all). Spec into things like throwing mine and Lotus Dance, remember to keep your distance and maybe go for the Poison Moth > Izuna Drop finisher instead of web if you aren't feeling confident. If they're red fury, save your escapes for when they activate it.

 

Some general tips against Destroyers as an Assassin would be:

• Remember to use your Q when you think they'll use their tab escape. After a Web > 1 > 4 setup, instead of doing your full animation cancel combo, use Q instead and then finish with Close Shave. If they tab, you'll resist it and gain stealth too.
• You can tell exactly when their spin is going to end by looking at the "slow" status effect that's on the Destroyer while they spin. Use things like your Sneak Attack (stealth X daze) in between their spins, then launch them.
• You can also time things like your stealth 3 to hit them between spins and stun them. You'll need to practice this with a friend to get the timing right.
• Try to stay away from walls. They can just flame spin your health away and you won't really be able to escape. If you can, use SS into RB (the lightning dash) to gain distance or teleport to your flower, but try not to get cornered.
• Lastly, spam your Q in neutral game. If the destroyer charges at you, your Q will come off and you'll resist them and gain stealth too. Use it and abuse it, it's only an 8 second cooldown.

Some of your matches against Destroyers might be wins by time-outs, but a win is a win. If you get too aggressive they won't hesitate in ending you, so play careful.

 

Summoners are, in my opinion, Assassin's worst matchup by a fair bit. When they Doom 'n Bloom you (the flower that grows on your character and ticks for damage), they will heal, deal damage and prevent you from going into stealth. If they set up nettles on the ground and stand in it (the green spiky AoE), you can't walk in and harass them with RB > F since the AoE will knock you out of stealth. They can just use Q to make their cat invulnerable (and heal it too if you attack) while you're in stealth and if you get too hasty with your RB > F, they can use the enhanced dandelion counter to resist you (you can't guard break that one from stealth).

 

Really fighting Summoners is a pain. If you think you get a lot of time-out wins with Destroyers, then you better get prepared for Summoners, because the majority of your wins will be by time-outs. Most of the time you won't even be using Web and your animation cancel combo is extremely hard to pull off since the cat can interrupt you. Your best bet is to spec into things like Throwing Mine, Shadow Drain (for maximum stealth harassment), not spec into close shave (so that you can RB > F from stealth while they're stunned), and completely max out your Lotus Dance. Since you won't be doing many web combos, you might want to not spec 3 points into your 1 skill and instead max out Decoy for extra protection. You can also spec into Choke Bomb or Plague Mist if you got the points, as SS > RB (or Decoy > RB, though I'd save Decoy) with 5 poison stacks hits like a truck.

 

General tips would be:

• Your match will be just stealth harassment. If the summoner has half an idea of what you can do, he won't let you just follow him and do it, but regardless RB > F from stealth is your main tool.
• Keep track of their enhanced counter. It looks different from their normal one (they won't be holding the dandelion up, it'll kind of just levitate by itself next to them) and it's on a 36 second CD. Use the arena timer at the top to make a mental note of when it'll be up; don't RB into it or you're screwed.
• If you are Doom 'n Bloom'd, you have two options. Lotus Dance towards the cat (not the summoner, since they can use their counter and enter stealth while you're hitting them). You'll heal a fair bit if you have it maxed and resist all damage. Then you can finish up with a Q from Lotus Dance to gain stealth from the cat's (or the summoner's) attacks.
• If you get Doom 'n Bloom'd but don't have Lotus Dance (after all their DnB is on an 18 second CD so it's bound to happen), SS > RB away to gain distance. The AoE around Doom 'n Bloom will heal the Summoner all the damage DnB deals to you, so get the hell away.
• Smoke Bomb will protect you from most of the Summoner's attacks (it will not stop Doom 'n Bloom or Sunflower, so beware, they can still use their cat grapple and sunflower you to death). You'll be using it a lot.
• There are two types of Summoners. Those who spec into their E (the one that teleports the cat to them) and those that don't. If they don't you can use your stealth 1 to make the cat unconscious. Enjoy your 30 seconds of no pet. Though most decent Summoners will have it specced, so watch out.
• Some Summoners will use their E to try and unstealth you (when the cat appears, it does a small AoE stomp). You can time your Q when they do this to resist it and get even more stealth on top, so keep an eye out for that.

You will have to be on point to win against a Summoner. There will be no room to breathe and a decent Summoner is the bane of your existence. At level 50 cap it gets way better, with Decoy finally giving damage and status effect resistances, but until then you'll be working extra hard to beat them.

[AbsoluteZer0]

Thanks guy i will try to practice more with those tip! 

Can anyone show me a screen shot of proper skill point build? Im suck at it

[Flax]

1 hour ago, AbsoluteZer0 said:

Thanks guy i will try to practice more with those tip! 

Can anyone show me a screen shot of proper skill point build? Im suck at it

 

This is a build I like to use against Summoners:

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=4500000120210034101941111230054119921012330062301622018210093121431

 

This is one I use against blue Fury Destroyers:

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=450000012011003410342201023019310083119921012320062301622018210092121431

 

And this is for red Fury Destroyers:

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=450000012011003410342201023019310083119921012321422101622018210093221431

 

[Feken]

hey OP, great thread with a lot useful info. 

 

as a sin that's only really done arena from levels 15 to 25 (15/19/25 to be specific) summoners is the one class that ive maybe managed to beat once. doesn't matter if they're terrible, they just have that damn cat ;p

 

i've tried doing the knock out the cat thing but its still really hard. i guess i'll keep trying but not feel too bad until later levels once i have more of my skill points. 

 

i plan to get myself to around 32 in the next day or two but i still plan to do arenas in lowbie in order to A. get a feel on how to fight different classes and B. learn how to use any new moves/skills i gain as i go. i feel point B is especially important for me as i'd rather go into 45 pvp with pretty decent knowledge of wth im doing. 

 

ive gotten to gold rating but im hovering in and out of it but i guess that should be fine since ill be playing players that are either avg and higher level or pretty good at lower level (or avg to bad on a summoner QQ). 

anyway just a little background and now for my questions (Flak pls). 

 

What skills do you consider essential say at around level 30? i'm mostly taking things that give me resist/evasion but not much of any of the poison stuff or hp recovery since im fairly limited in what i can choose.

 

@Flakdo you have a build perhaps thats more general for a new player at 45 (all all around type of build i mean)? if you do and could point out any essentials must haves, i would really appreciate it.

 

sorry, i sound demanding af but its really just if you have time lol :D

 

already helped me alot with the couple posts you've made in here so thanks for that :)

[ugauga]

l2p

[AbsoluteZer0]

I now finally can have a chance again the spin to win but its really dam hard have to put lots of work into a match with them while all they do is spin! 

And summoner is just crazy still no chances 

i got mad over the aiming system too -.-"

[Flax]

12 hours ago, Feken said:

as a sin that's only really done arena from levels 15 to 25 (15/19/25 to be specific) summoners is the one class that ive maybe managed to beat once. doesn't matter if they're terrible, they just have that damn cat ;p

 

Yeah, at the lower levels it's very unbalanced. Being starved of all your skillpoints makes it hard to PvP effectively, I'm sure you'll do better once you hit cap and have full access to your skills and abilities.

 

Quote

What skills do you consider essential say at around level 30? i'm mostly taking things that give me resist/evasion but not much of any of the poison stuff or hp recovery since im fairly limited in what i can choose.

 

@Flakdo you have a build perhaps thats more general for a new player at 45 (all all around type of build i mean)? if you do and could point out any essentials must haves, i would really appreciate it.

 

There isn't so much a general build, since a build for fighting FM is very different from one that is fighting BM.

 

The essentials you will always have are maxed heart stab, at least one point on your tab escape (Stealth) and three points on your flower (V, Lotus of Escape) to give you a second stun escape. Your LB stun from stealth (Spinal Tap) should also normally have at least 1 point in it for the reduced focus cost and your stealth X (Sneak Attack) should also at least have two points in it for the daze. The rest is really subjective.

 

For BM/KFM, I like to use this:

 

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=4500000120210034103422010230191100831199210123201622018210093221431

 

You can swap Lotus Kick for Lotus Fury, but I enjoy the longer combos that come from Lotus Kick. You can almost 100-0 with it in your animation cancel combo.

The two remaining points can go in things like Time Bomb (for the Daze), your mine (for the Daze when poisoned) or your Lightning Rod (Form 1 for lower cooldown).

 

Against BDs it would be the same, except you take off a point from Spinal Tap and put it on your tab escape (pretty much the same as the build against red Fury Destroyers).

Versus FMs, it'd be the same as the vs. Summoner build, but you might want to take a point off the tab escape and put it on Time Bomb for the daze, it can be really useful.

 

On Assassin mirrors it gets complicated, since there are quite a lot of ways of doing the mirror. I personally like to go for a stealth harassment build (a bit similar to the Summoner one), but instead it's built like this:

 

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=45000001202100341010230191111123005411281119921012310062201633018210091121431

 

The Time Bomb makes for great pressure (or defence if it goes off while they're in stealth) and Freezing Mine is your panic button. Having Smoke Screen is crucial, since those 10 seconds in stealth will really come in handy. Finally, Poison Breath can be used to hit the other Assassin out of stealth.

 

 

[SinNoAria]

As someone who plays mainly a summoner, Flax's tips are pretty much on point. Main thing I have to caution about is relying on stealth. I don't spec into E. My summon is mainly there to distract and buy time. Most people expect my cat to be super buffed up and try too hard to take care of the cat.

 

How I often end up fighting is I'll go super offensive at first, trying to force my opponent to use up their counters and cc's so that their important skills are on cd, then I'll go and start doing actual combos that will drain a large amount of health.

 

You can adjust aim sensitivity btw, it may help.

 

(My playstyle is almost specifically is to counter stealth harassment builds. Essentially, I know the common weaknesses of the summoner, so I play in a way to counter the common playstyles that would take advantage of those weaknesses)

[Darkshana]

I play both Assassin and Destroyer and all I can say is.

 

For both save your Tab for emergency only.

 

For summoner aim for the cat first, be evasive and don't rely on stealth as much. If the cat dies go on the offensive. The other advice is to have your poison moth out. This way summoner cannot use invisibility. Using your lotus is very important to avoid being pinned down by summoner.

 

The second tactic is to throw bomb to stack poison then keep hiding and avoiding the summoner. When the 2 minute time is up you should win by default for doing more dmg.

 

be aware, Summoner is notorious for being strong against Assassin.

 

For destroyer timing when you throw your dagger, Q when they jump at you. Their spin cannot counter aoe so using poison and bombs often to skirmish and inflict dmg. Destroyers only regenerate focus if they hit enemy or get hit themselves. If they keep spinning, just keep your distance and they will run out of focus.

[Feken]

2 hours ago, Flax said:

 

snip

sweet dude, thanks a lot for the extra builds, gonna have to keep this bookmarked for reference as i gain abilities etc. guess its really down to me learning how to play each individual class (what works etc). ill have to try your builds once im cap level and see what i want to tweak for myself etc but its great to have somewhere to start instead of... "what does this button do" at 45 lol. 

 

appreciate everyone's input vs the summoners too, got this bookmarked :)

[AbsoluteZer0]

I dont know if this is really a thing but try it!!

when i fight with destroyer today i use the land mike then tab (shoot leaf) transfer destroyer to the land mike explode it ( so they knock down) then steath behind them and spam right click + F its look like animation cancel which the combo go supper fast than when the opponent is not on the ground! 

I took out haft of their health just by that combo

Idk, maybe~

[xelzar]

I dont have much problems with summoners, its just a patience game, like most ppl said ,stealth is ur friend here, speccing smokebomb + the 10 sec vanish stealt etc etc. Another trick I use is the stealth >1 (unspecced combo )> this give you a 30 sec CC its kinda like Sap in wow but it has no Deminishign return in pvp , so most of the time i do <tab> on teh cat to switch place (this is important because u want him aay from his owner ) then press <1> to charge at it and get steath > and then use <1> again. and the cat will be unconcious for 30 sec. u just need to be carefull to not hit teh cat bcs 1 awakes him. thats why we swap bodies awell to keep him as far aspossible from the owner. and believe me a summoner with out hes cat is dead in a good 20 sec combo. Another thing u want to keep in mind with this trick is, the targe that get in the 'unconsious state' will get a rapid healing phase. so make sure u dont use it on the player when hes half hp, bcs before u notice hes healed to full hp 

[Rane]

I didn't read all the replies, but I have some tips.

 

1. Against summoner take poison grenade, and stay in stealth as much as possible, keep doing your little dps, keep poison up on him, and use it to refresh stealth. I also really like both landmine, and web in this match up. Landmine the cat, or the summoner and attack the one who's not disabled.

 

Against unsuspecting summoners you can open aggressive, I drop a mine with my flower, body swap stun the summon, probably even tab him, then proceed to try to kill the cat really fast. This normally results in him standing up and trying to unload on me easy evade. Now he is playing defensively because his cat is about to die.

 

If your going to play this way be careful what you do with your escape skills, so he cant resummons the cat. Make sure you take smokescreen to regen hp and ignore projectiles.

 

DO NOT miss an opportunity to take free shots on the summoner, a lot of times when they see you focusing the cat they get careless with defense and you can easily roast half his hp bar randomly and have him on tilt.

 

For destroyers, as said before kite a lot. Make sure to use shuriken when you can.

 

DO NOT use tab against destroyers grab move. Don't bother trying to escape at all, just do your dmg in return and press F when the throws you to get back on your feet. He doesn't hurt while hes holding you so its really a waste to escape this.

 

Use Q and SS a lot to put distance between him, and watch his spins, after around 4-5 rotations I normally pounce on him.

 

You can spec your 3 skill into a knockdown for destroyers, though I rarely do this because I don't like to be within that range of him, and tbh knocking him down is only needed to retreat.

 

You can either run poison grenade imo to keep dpsing him, or you can run landmine against destroyers AND blade dancers. This skill is good for offense and defense. I have found it clutch against spinning classes. And you can both plant and detonate it while stealthed as well.

 

Often the destroyer is chasing you as you run backwards/sideways. Any time you drop a mine you basically plant a field he can not pass through to reach you.

 

There are some basic overlooked tips as well such as your C skill will make you invincible as well, if you specc'ed down the tree, it also gives you resistance after casting, and hp regen when resisted.

 

While they are spinning, they are resisting it, your gaining hp, not being hurt, and can also apply poison with x. This allows you to use the resist dmg from breaking C to use Tab in to stealth and hopefully get away even if he spins. Its best coupled with SS though because of the axe deceptive range.

[Tteunaegi]

35 minutes ago, Rane said:

I didn't read all the replies, but I have some tips.

 

1. Against summoner take poison grenade, and stay in stealth as much as possible, keep doing your little dps, keep poison up on him, and use it to refresh stealth. I also really like both landmine, and web in this match up. Landmine the cat, or the summoner and attack the one who's not disabled.

 

Against unsuspecting summoners you can open aggressive, I drop a mine with my flower, body swap stun the summon, probably even tab him, then proceed to try to kill the cat really fast. This normally results in him standing up and trying to unload on me easy evade. Now he is playing defensively because his cat is about to die.

 

If your going to play this way be careful what you do with your escape skills, so he cant resummons the cat. Make sure you take smokescreen to regen hp and ignore projectiles.

 

DO NOT miss an opportunity to take free shots on the summoner, a lot of times when they see you focusing the cat they get careless with defense and you can easily roast half his hp bar randomly and have him on tilt.

 

For destroyers, as said before kite a lot. Make sure to use shuriken when you can.

 

DO NOT use tab against destroyers grab move. Don't bother trying to escape at all, just do your dmg in return and press F when the throws you to get back on your feet. He doesn't hurt while hes holding you so its really a waste to escape this.

 

Use Q and SS a lot to put distance between him, and watch his spins, after around 4-5 rotations I normally pounce on him.

 

You can spec your 3 skill into a knockdown for destroyers, though I rarely do this because I don't like to be within that range of him, and tbh knocking him down is only needed to retreat.

 

You can either run poison grenade imo to keep dpsing him, or you can run landmine against destroyers AND blade dancers. This skill is good for offense and defense. I have found it clutch against spinning classes. And you can both plant and detonate it while stealthed as well.

 

Often the destroyer is chasing you as you run backwards/sideways. Any time you drop a mine you basically plant a field he can not pass through to reach you.

 

There are some basic overlooked tips as well such as your C skill will make you invincible as well, if you specc'ed down the tree, it also gives you resistance after casting, and hp regen when resisted.

 

While they are spinning, they are resisting it, your gaining hp, not being hurt, and can also apply poison with x. This allows you to use the resist dmg from breaking C to use Tab in to stealth and hopefully get away even if he spins. Its best coupled with SS though because of the axe deceptive range.

The last two paragraphs helped me rethink my build a little. The C skill is pretty amazing and didn't realize I could spec for HP Regen. It's a good counter for the spin and turns their strength against them.

 

Summoners I abuse Smoke Bomb and KD/KU the cat and treat it like a mob in the open world and just spam my RB F till it's dead. It's worked some far.