Tjaranis

I am a bit disappointed about the PvP combat.

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Tjaranis   

 

I am a bit disappointed about the PvP combat.

 

So I am a bit disappointed about the PvP combat. On first glance the combat seems amazing, and most of it is very well done so let me try to explain what I think is off with it, in my optic ^^

 

So my last big mmo was aion, I played it for several years, stopped around 1 year ago due to work, interest, more education (university) etc.

So the feel of combat in aion, which I loved is what I am going out from.

 

So what I love about PvP combat is the feeling of:

 

Intensity: that all your moves have a very real and important effect on who wins the battle: B&S have this down as much as any game, your every move is directly effecting your outcome in a very serious way.

 

Speed of your fingers: are you fast enough with the combo’s etc. and are you fast enough while being able to keep track of your opponents move and plan for the next: in this aspect I think blade and soul lacks a bit, it is a much slower pace combat system with GCD which feels close to 0,5 seconds which is 5 times longer than Aion (which currently have 0,1 sec GCD). This slows the feel of urgency on skills down a lot. But because so much is counter skills I guess it can be fine.

and just to add to this, the hardcoded none mappable hotkeys feel extremely bad for me :/ which makes this again a worse experience.

 

Movement: does it feel like it is two masters fighting and moving. When two masters fight there will be a LOT of movement, especially if we are talking deadly weapons, this is because most of the fight would be a position game “best position highest chance of winning” and that everytime one have the upper hand the other would need to reposition to force the first to follow into a bad position or restart the position game.

In such a manner I think Aion had this down very well, fights often tended to go on for a long time AND there was a LOT of movement, not all the time, but when there where you moved quite far.

This is not the Case in B&S, the movement in combat is Really minor, you move so slow that trying to reposition without skill use is nearly impossible(or just useless), and you are more looking like two fat guys wrestling on one spot of the floor than two martial artist masters fighting it out in standing combat to the death.

I do feel that the very slow pace movement is misplaced in contract to the fast pace combat, and the whole “super martial art” theme they choose.

Because of the slow movement you feel more like a person fighting in tar than a true martial artist.

True you got a few movement skills and when using these you can feel like the movement is on the level it should be, but these are medium CD and even a fat guy fighting in tar can make momentary fast and explosive movement. On top of that the dodging is done purely by a few skills dedicated to this, you don’t have an actual dodge (which martial artist hero movie have you seen where the main can’t dodge like crazy, all the time?).

when you compare this aspect with Black desert action combat PvP you will see that Black desert is ALL about movement and positioning, you CONSTANTLY move around each other and dodges all the time to position, attack and avoid attacks. This makes the combat feel really alive, hectic and also adds to the intensity and the feel it is master fighters having a fight. This is accomplished even though Black desert only got like 3-4 combo’s for each class, and almost no counter skills, BD’s combat system is so extremely simple compared to B&S but because of this single aspect of movement it makes it feel a LOT more alive when playing yourself (watching top level players will always seem more intense so cant use that as our base line)

So here is properly the biggest problem I feel in pvp and why it feels kind of disappointing.

Movability also goes together with escape ability, which I made a thread about here: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/topic/147787-movement-combat-and-pvp/?login

 

Winning condition: how do you win, what is established for you to win and what is important?.

In Aion it was all about using the counter skill correctly, making the enemy wasted their resources and then CC and burst kill the enemy, but even here a lot of the damage you did was done throughout the combat without CC applied which was positive.

in B&S it seems like the only damage that is worth mentioning is applied only on CC'ed targets. everything is about CC'ing your enemy, and very little is reactionary to anything else then CC. there is so much focus on CC oppose to actual applying damage or avoiding it in other means that it feels "boring/frustrating".

 

The arena system itself: I LOVE IT! The idea of having 100% balanced stats and only skill matters is awesome. Ability to respect between each match is AWESOME as well ^^

I am unsure how 3v3 works since I only done 1v1 and open world pvp. But I hope it is awesome will properly test it today. We still need some capture the flag, and hold the point pvp scenarios would be awesome and is always a big hit in every game they introduced to.

 

Reward for pvp: there doesn’t seem to be any which is noteworthy and xp gained while pvping is none existing :/ those area should really be fixed, PvP should be more rewarding than most things you can do in the game, to make more people want to join in on it.

 

So as you can see there is a lot of positive and not many negatives and yet I say that I am disappointed, why is that?

Well because I do not enjoy the PvP, the lack of movability and the extreme focus on CC and CC chains above all else is making the pvp experience for me really bad, boring and frustrating. The lack of escape ability /disengaging for Open world, just strengthens the issue’s of imbalance of lvl difference and the setup of “lose all when getting killed” in open world makes this worse.

 

I feel like the PvP in arena was one very slow sumo-wrestling match where all it was about is who can land the cc and keep nuking after that. I didn’t feel like the fast pace, movable combat system of other action mmo’s or even that feeling of fast pace movability of Aion.

 

I am a bit sad to say this because the game is heavily relying on PvP to make you enjoy yourself in the long run, and if it is not “fun” then I doubt there will be much to do.

 

 

Now enough sadness lets talk fixes:

 

So the problem is the movability: this is the major issue I see. So first of I think we need to get rid of the “dodging skills” which are all individual skills (dash left, dash right, backflip, dash flame, dash ice, etc etc etc.) and make a “dodging mechanic” same as we see in nearly all other action based mmo’s.

If this has a very low CD we might not need to increase the movement speed in combat, but I would say increase the base movement speed in combat by roughly 30-50% (might need a bit of readjustments for range advantage for balance).

 

Another thing I think might benefit to change a bit is to streamline counter CC a lot more, in aion you got counter stun, works on everything considered a stun, and you got healing pots works on everything which is effects, and then we got 100% hard cc which can’t be countered but always adds handicaps when used (tree 50% damage reduction: fear makes you run away etc.).

I think boiling it down to max 2 different counter skills and equalizing their amount would be beneficial.

On that note: it can be VERY hard to see what is being cast on you and prepare for it, this is properly due to the lack of cast bars which indicates this and that the graphic very fast gets impossible to distinguish in the heart of the moment: there need to be CLEAR visible indicators on the enemy about which skill he is using (since as it is only on the graphic it is often useless, especially on lyns which are so small you can’t see the animations on them in the first place, in pvp).

 

______________________________

But these are just my thoughts on what the issue might be, since I believe there is one.

If you tried pvp and didn’t like it could you try to analyze why and write it down ^^ there might be a better explanation on the issue, this was just what I could conclude after my experiences with it.

Edited by Tjaranis

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My gameplay experience has been vastly different from yours. I feel the combat is faster paced than any MMOs I've played (including Aion) as well as the counter play being some of the most skilled I've seen. Although this may differ depending on your class.

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Tjaranis   
17 minutes ago, Nachtdrache said:

My gameplay experience has been vastly different from yours. I feel the combat is faster paced than any MMOs I've played (including Aion) as well as the counter play being some of the most skilled I've seen. Although this may differ depending on your class.

some people will always love it, some will always hate it :)

i am mostly interested in those people that usually love action combat, which can chime in on improvements ^^

 

just a question, how much pvp did you do before your conclusion? and 1v1, open world or 3v3?

 

edit

btw: i am not saying you dont need Skill, it shouldnt be a question if you need high skill for this game (since it is obvious it

requires very high skills to play). it is more that i don't find it very intertaining in the right way, i doubt i could play this pvp for many hours at a time, because of it.

ofcouse it will get more fun as people master the classes etc. i just feel that there is a high lack on some areas which decrease a lot of the fun

Edited by Tjaranis

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Kutsuu   

First, your desires to revamp the entire combat system aren't happening. Keep in mind that we will be closely following the KR version of the game. 

 

Aside from that... You clearly have preconceptions that are hurting your ability to analyze the pvp in this game. This is not Aion or WoW or whatever other game - this is Blade & Soul and you should try to look at it with a fresh perspective that isn't clouded by your desires for it to play like a different video game. 

 

IMO you need to spend a lot more time PVPing before thinking you're able to make major balance decisions and ask for revamps. It seems you don't appreciate the escapes and dodges that we have now because you want escapes and dodges from another game... but you'll find there's quite an intricate system in place in B&S. Just the fact that you liken it to a "sumo wrestling match where you try to land CC and keep nuking" makes me think your PVP experience is primarily on a low level character playing against other low level characters in the Bronze/Silver leagues. Please do yourself a favor and watch some of the world championship matches from Korea on youtube. You'll get an idea of how elegantly this game can be played by skilled players with years of experience. 

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Tjaranis   
2 minutes ago, Kutsuu said:

First, your desires to revamp the entire combat system aren't happening. Keep in mind that we will be closely following the KR version of the game. 

 

Aside from that... You clearly have preconceptions that are hurting your ability to analyze the pvp in this game. This is not Aion or WoW or whatever

your negative attitude and arogance is not welcome here, go other places for that kind of bs.

 

have a nice day and goodbye

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Kutsuu   
1 minute ago, Tjaranis said:

your negative attitude and arogance is not welcome here, go other places for that kind of bs.

 

have a nice day and goodbye

 

Well it's too bad that you feel that way... but seriously can you refute anything I said? Have you even PVP'd at max level? Have you made it past Silver? The impression I get from your post is that you are new to the game and pvping on a low level character against other low level characters. Since when have you been able to review a game when you've barely played it? 

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Tjaranis   
18 minutes ago, Nachtdrache said:

I've gotten 1650+ on two characters in 1v1 on NA and 1750ish on on RU server. I've done little Wpvp and no 3v3.

i do think in the arena one of the things which makes it feel so bad is how badly balanced it feels.

as mentioned you either utterly rolfstomp the enemy and they got no chance, or you get utterly rolfstomped with no chance.

it almost never seem to be a fair match.

 

i think this is due to several things:

the first being mmr ofc. which you cant touch so lets ignore that.

the second: because it is all based so much on CC either you got the CC or you dont, if you dont you get rolfstomp, if you do you rolfstomp. there is cases like the assassin which seems to just be able  to pump out more damage, but this is more to do with builds which is next point

because the classes works so differently you need to almost FULLY change your skill layout depending on the skills you fight, which you got 25ish seconds to do and get right (or buy extra skill setups, which ofcouse is the way to go in the end), but due to this extreme "paper/scissor/stone" guessing it adds even more frustration to the overall feeling..

 

i win around 66% of my fights and even when winning i am just annoyed at how bad the fight was, when losing i am just annoyed at how bad the fight was....

it is the feel of the pvp which is bad due to its focus on CC, and counter CC, nothing else really. and because of that it just feel "meeh" for me...

 

as i said in my first post i am disapointed in how the PvP feels overall... the focus have been set in a bad way and they should refocus this (actually we saw the same in Aion from the start, stun combo's won ALL then they fixed it with anti stun, moving the focus more to offensive damage and defensive skills+movement, then they *cricket*ed it again by focusing only on burst and CC again at the later patches. but well they had it quite perfectly for a good while :P

)

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Tjaranis   
54 minutes ago, Nachtdrache said:

I've gotten 1650+ on two characters in 1v1 on NA and 1750ish on on RU server. I've done little Wpvp and no 3v3.

i do think in the arena one of the things which makes it feel so bad is how badly balanced it feels.

as mentioned you either utterly rolfstomp the enemy and they got no chance, or you get utterly rolfstomped with no chance.

it almost never seem to be a fair match.

 

i think this is due to several things:

the first being mmr ofc. which you cant touch so lets ignore that.

the second: because it is all based so much on CC either you got the CC or you dont, if you dont you get rolfstomp, if you do you rolfstomp. there is cases like the assassin which seems to just be able  to pump out more damage, but this is more to do with builds which is next point

because the classes works so differently you need to almost fully change your skill layout depending on the skills you fight, which you got 25ish seconds to do and get right (or buy extra skill setups, which ofcouse is the way to go in the end), but due to this extreme "paper/scissor/stone" guessing it adds even more frustration to the overall feeling.

In Aion you had ALL skills, so you always had the tools to fight anything, you might not be able to utilize them so you won, but you never lacked the tools, in B&S I seem to often just lack the tools, even when I know what I would need to win I simply just don’t have the skills equippd at this time, and redoing all the keys between fights only helps in the second fight and I am not fast enough to do so right now (speed thing is my issue). But the problem is still there that a change from the opponent means you don’t have the tools which is not a question of skills, and therefore subtracts from the enjoyment in my opinion.

 

i win around 66% of my fights and even when winning i am just annoyed at how bad the fight was, when losing i am just annoyed at how bad the fight was....

it is the feel of the pvp which is bad due to its focus on CC, and counter CC, nothing else really. and because of that it just feel "meeh" for me...

 

as i said in my first post i am disapointed in how the PvP feels overall... the focus have been set in a bad way and they should refocus this (actually we saw the same in Aion from the start, stun combo's won ALL then they fixed it with anti stun, moving the focus more to offensive damage and defensive skills+movement, then they *cricket*ed it again by focusing only on burst and CC again at the later patches. but well they had it quite perfectly for a good while :P

)

 

Edited by Tjaranis

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I don't know I enjoy the gameplay of baiting out escapes and having to decide which CC to use my escapes on. I feel like the combat speed and counter play are in a good place (this is of course coming from an assassin.) Some of my most fun fights are sin vs sin or sin vs kfm where this gameplay really shines. My opinion is obviously very biased as I don't have as much experience with other classes so their mileage may vary.

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Enamour   
3 hours ago, Kutsuu said:

First, your desires to revamp the entire combat system aren't happening. Keep in mind that we will be closely following the KR version of the game. 

 

Aside from that... You clearly have preconceptions that are hurting your ability to analyze the pvp in this game. This is not Aion or WoW or whatever other game - this is Blade & Soul and you should try to look at it with a fresh perspective that isn't clouded by your desires for it to play like a different video game. 

 

IMO you need to spend a lot more time PVPing before thinking you're able to make major balance decisions and ask for revamps. It seems you don't appreciate the escapes and dodges that we have now because you want escapes and dodges from another game... but you'll find there's quite an intricate system in place in B&S. Just the fact that you liken it to a "sumo wrestling match where you try to land CC and keep nuking" makes me think your PVP experience is primarily on a low level character playing against other low level characters in the Bronze/Silver leagues. Please do yourself a favor and watch some of the world championship matches from Korea on youtube. You'll get an idea of how elegantly this game can be played by skilled players with years of experience. 

 

3 hours ago, Tjaranis said:

your negative attitude and arogance is not welcome here, go other places for that kind of bs.

 

have a nice day and goodbye

 

He actually isn't being rude. I'm 95% sure you're pvping before 45 most likely and therefore, things are gonna seem unbalanced. Also, in Aion, yes you'd bait Remove Shock but usually in the same rotations, i.e. Sorcerer can cover silence, stun, then either sleep or go for more damage and control the fight then go for an Aether Hold knowing RS down to finish a person off. In BnS, it's not as linear. Sure in both games you decide whether or not you need to burn your cc break but in Aion, gear mattered an eventually you cannot stand to hold onto your RS and would be forced to blow it or die. Not to mention, if you were fast enough (sin comes to mind) you could actually KD someone THROUGH RS, which is silly. In BnS, you can either "RS" (tab) or actually go for a reverse sweep to burn the other player's RS or use whatever your class's 1 is. BnS becomes much more in-depth pvp wise once you understand it's not just button mashing. Higher players (pretty much Gold+) WILL be looking for your 2 counter and gain distance. They WILL be looking for common reaction situations (i.e. you wanna open with spin against a Blademaster as a Destroyer to avoid their rush stun? That BM can jump and hover around you, throw their Z then Diving Sparrow you as their Z will stop the spin thus being able to cc you). There's a lot more prediction in BnS imo.

 

And no, this post isn't in a rude manner itself. It's just that you're expecting one thing and are used to other things and (naturally) feel opposed to something new. Hit max level then try Arena again perhaps. Or as Kutsuu said, you really should watch the Korean Tournaments. This is one of the most balanced mmos with pvp, having the potential to hit E-Sports status. It's gonna take time and dedication to actually be good as the learning curve of NA playerbase increases daily.

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Sinamin   

I guess my question would be what class do u have and what lvl are u pvping at?  Some classes such as KFM need skill points.

 

 

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Tjaranis   
3 hours ago, Sinamin said:

I guess my question would be what class do u have and what lvl are u pvping at?  Some classes such as KFM need skill points.

 

 

i am 35+ and i am playing a FM, biggest problem i got is with assassins currently (but that is most likely lack of skills/knowledge about them). around 1500 score (with a little over 50% winrate now)

 

i do believe all skills should be available when entering arena, since it is suppose to be the place where only your rl skills is the importent part, not how much you grinded or how many tier 4 you unlocked etc.

 

sorry for the short answer, i think i located where my big problem with B&S combat is. ofcouse  movement is a part of it, but i think the main problem is their way to introduce what i would call an arbitrary difficulty increasement to the rl skill ceiling, by having you constantly think over the "mode" you are in which dictates which skills you can use.

 

i will post it when i am done with it, since it is a good deal of explanation and i think this is where the core issue of the B&S combat system is comming from :)

Edited by Tjaranis

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Polite   

You're crazy if you think Aion pvp is better than BnS  seriously so dumb, and at level 35 you can't even use FM at its full potential FM's have one of the BEST punishes in this game I would suggest you watch MaDo Shi who was a plat FM during CBT.

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Tjaranis   
45 minutes ago, Polite said:

You're crazy if you think Aion pvp is better than BnS  seriously so dumb, and at level 35 you can't even use FM at its full potential FM's have one of the BEST punishes in this game I would suggest you watch MaDo Shi who was a plat FM during CBT.

the level isn't really relevant for anything but balancing purposes since most of my points doesn't have  to do with this aspect, your idea isn't going to help at all on the issues ^^

i am doing a deeper explanation about the issue's fundamental root as i see it ^^ will post it soonish.

 

edit: as a design Aions PvP was better than B&S when looking upon it. B&S is more shiny and more stuff is there, but as a design i find it worse (coding wise it is better i suppose. but hard to say this early).

Edited by Tjaranis

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Thus far I've pvp'd minimally as I'm not max level and playing assassin so I'm missing several important abilities down at level 24, but tbh the only problem I really have about the pvp is the targeting system making it a pain to play against summoners (or any future class that would have a pet would bring up the same problem), without some sort of sticky targeting mechanic I feel that even when I outplay certain things (like making his pet tap my decoy to break out of the root) it just doesn't matter because its so hard to target the summoner and not his pet, it slows my reaction time and allows a point of counterplay that really shouldn't exist. But nonetheless, I still think the pvp in this game is fantastic.

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Polite   
9 minutes ago, Tjaranis said:

the level isn't really relevant for anything but balancing purposes since most of my points doesn't have  to do with this aspect, your idea isn't going to help at all on the issues ^^

i am doing a deeper explanation about the issue's fundamental root as i see it ^^ will post it soonish.

 

edit: as a design Aions PvP was better than B&S when looking upon it. B&S is more shiny and more stuff is there, but as a design i find it worse (coding wise it is better i suppose. but hard to say this early).

Your level is but the utmost important that means you have skills that you can't put skill points into which for instance might let you resist/iframe  lol if you're playing pvp at level 35 and you play a level 45 you're at a huge disadvantage unless you're very skilled lol.

Edited by Polite
typo's leel

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Tjaranis   

 

i made this its own post because it is a subject which hits B&S general combat and design, and i would like it to be discussed as such among all players not just pvp'ers ^^

the thread can be found here for the discussion, please keep it civil: i also posted it here since it is an extension of the analyzing i did because of my wondering of "Why do i find pvp so unenjoyable in B&S when i should be loving it?"

 

 

 

So let us talk arbitrary difficulty.

 

With difficulty, I mean difficulty of playing, the Real life skill ceiling which master players strife to reach.

Difficulty of playing is important to have in games, it is what separates the master players from the less skilled, it gives positive motivations to improve etc. all that nice stuff (we can do a discussion about why it is so positive if there is a need for it.)

 

But the way to increase difficulty is not always a positive enhancement, in my opinion.

 

So what do I mean with arbitrary difficulty.

Well I was trying to define it and what I came up with is:

“Mechanics which only effect is to make something more difficult to accomplish.”

 

When making a game or playing a game I think one of the most important factors for the enjoyment is whether or not it feels intuitive and that it feels like the controls are optimized for the effect. Meaning that you cannot come up with a solution in control or design that accomplish the same but is easier to do without removing functionality from other aspects.

 

When saying it like this it is because it is hard to explain in a general term, so instead I will come with some examples of what I mean:

 

Lets take Aion, because its another ncsoft game with focus on combat.

In aion when you look at the mechanics of using skills and applying effects, there isn’t really a faster way of doing so, if you want to apply a slow, you would use a slow skill directly with 1 push of a bottom, you can see all skills constantly and see all CD’s etc. there is really no way of optimizing this process.

Therefore it is as easy and intuitive as it can be without hurting functionality of other skills.

 

Now lets look at something like GW2, also owned by ncsoft, when applying an effect here you might need to first put down a field, then switch to another weapon, then use a skill upon that field.

This is not very intuitive and it is adding extra steps, which really isn’t needed and doesn’t add to the effective gameplay in other ways than increasing complexity and thereby difficulty of use.

This is what I call arbitrary difficulty, because its primary function is there to push up the difficulty of accomplishing whichever goal is there.

Removing the “switching weapon” functionality from the equation would simply make it easier to do, more intuitive to do and give you more information to work from (CD timers etc. would be visible for all skills then), again making it easier to do. But at the same time it wouldn’t make it harder, less intuitive or remove information from any other mechanic or gameplay aspect.

Thereby it is an arbitrary difficulty increaser. You can discuss about the field+blast effects, since it adds an extra layer but isn’t there a better way the effect of this layer could have been added which would be both more intuitive and faster/easier to accomplish? I would argue there is.

 

NOW BACK TO B&S:

It took me some time to located why I found the combat of B&S “not optimal”/”not fun in PvP”, and besides my personal preference of wanting more movability in combat which is a discussion of preferences, it comes down to the adding of arbitrary difficulty.

The constant switching of skillsets is making the use of skills less intuitive, more difficult and much slower. It also indirectly slows down the process of reaction for your brain in general since it is going from an auto responsive nature to an active nature, because it needs to keep track of “which stand am I in and which will I need for what skills”.

Having all skills available all the time (with some obviously conditioned by crits, KD, etc status effects) would only help to increase the ease of overview over skills available, the speed of use, change to auto response from active brain activity (as explained), and make it “easier in general”.

 

Now as I mentioned arbitrary difficulty is adding mechanics, which purpose is to crank up difficulty but they don’t really serve other purposes.

So the question comes to “what purpose does the stance serve which wouldn’t have been accomplished in a better manner without them?”.

Well they increase difficulty a lot, as we established.

They created precursers for which half of your base skills you can use, but this is simply increasing difficulty, not adding extra effects etc. that is important for the gameplay.

So why have the stances be pre-req for skills? Well to add difficulty and to lower “hotkey amount”.

Now hotkey amount is more than proven with aion that it is NOT an issue (75+ hotkeys and 0,1 sec GCD, so adding 4-8 extra hotkeys would be NOTHING and we would still be under the 25 hotkey amount.), so the system is basically there to add arbitrary difficulty and this is where I think my negative feeling of the combat system comes from.

 

It slows down the combat speed a lot because it has too, due to the autoresponse becoming active brain activity to keep track of this. So instead of the difficulty adding like in aion because you need to decide each move within 0,1 sec of the last, you are adding it by arbitrarily adding more “clicks” in a specific order for the primarily purpose of making it harder to do.

You could increase this even more by adding “QTE” to the skills, which is adding difficulty in the same manner, it counter intuitively increase difficulty of doing something which in reality is extremely simple and should be extremely easy.

 

This is where my feeling of the bad combat comes from and I do believe that it is where the biggest difference on other action games, or other popular fast pace combat ncsoft games and B&S.

That you usually don’t add arbitrary difficulty into fast pace combat games because it isn’t needed and it isn’t wanted when you are already working at a very high speed. Yet B&S decided that they Rather Slow down the combat speed by slowing down movement, slowing down projectiles, slowing down skills use (by setting up GCD to 0,5 sec instead of the 0,1 that aion as an example use. That is FIVE times faster skill use between each skill, that is an insane difference in rl skill ceiling need), and then add an arbitrary difficulty of having to push more bottoms and keep better track of which “mode” your character is currently in and which he needs to be in and which the enemy is in and which it can switch to with what skills…

 

It is a choice; arbitrary difficult increase or actually difficulty increase.

Personally I think it is a HUGE mistake that ncsoft have choosen to go the “arbitrary difficulty” route with this game and I hope they will rethink this for their next product.

You could easily speed up the fast pace of combat in B&S by simply removing stances/modes and let all abilities (not pre-req KD, other effects) be used from a single set of hotbars with hotkeys, which would focus more on the actual difficulty instead of the extra addition of “more clicks” to add arbitrary difficulty that truly wouldn’t be needed in a game like this.

 

This would actually fix the problem of the “slow feeling movement in combat” and the “off feel” of combat as well.

 

edit:

Polite

the level doesn't matter for the aspects i am talking about, you are talking balance, more skills to use etc. i am not. therefore the level is irrelavent as mentioned :)

Edited by Tjaranis

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Enamour   

You're in denial lol. I love how you're making statements trying to make it seem like it applies to everyone when it's literally your own flaws at handling things. That "brain activity" part is bullshit. Easy way to debunk this theorycrafting: in Aion, skills are all locked on. You cannot miss. This means there are less factors to calculate when going through rotations. Example: You're a sorcerer fighting an assassin. The sin has a limited amount of choices (excluding cheese mr sets). A skilled sorc will weave autos to burn FE and AT. They will cc (if possible) during Slayer form. This leaves a very CLEAR linear path for the sorcerer to deal with. 3 sleeps 2 stuns and 2 roots off the top of my head to deal with people (and you complain about CC lol...). Sleeping leads to longer time to think meaning the gameplay for this example is rather slow. Take BnS now and just the sheer factor that you skills can be IFRAMED and MISSED already adds in a complexity Aion lacks.

 

I could go on but it's very clear that you're in denial and you ignore everyone and everything else. BnS doesn't have a severely flawed pvp system. If anything, Aion has the worst of the two. Let's not even add in godstones and highly enchanted gear. Also have you even seen the animation cancelling on Destroyer RB-LB-RB? Your "explanations" are severely biased, lacks any real argument, and overall nonsense.

 

Go back to Aion if you hate BnS so much and refuse to even try.

Edited by Enamour

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19 hours ago, Tjaranis said:

 

"So my last big mmo was AION", just by saying that we can conclude you SUCK lol, because AION has a shiit combat system lol, if you would have said TERA instead of the shitty combat system that AION has then idk, but AION LOL, ofc you don't like the Blade and Soul combat system since you suck and can't adapt at a more complex combat system lel.

Edited by Deadlybeauty

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Sidamel   

I wonder why anyone would compare the combat system of Aion or TERA with BnS. That's already wrong to begin with. Their root bases on different systems. Thus it's kinda not comparable. All system have strengths but alas they also have weaknesses.

 

My biggest concern is that the pvp in BnS isn't casual friendly and a MMO lives by casuals not by serious players. For example that the skill setup has a huge impact in the pvp performance and this is a bad design choice imo. Do you guys seriously think a casual goes through that point by point to figure out how to setup against each class?

 

However I also think it is that way to balance each class against each other.

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Tzukune   

You sound like you played a SM in aion and loved fearing non-stop until opponent was dead. or a sorc and cc attach cc wait for cool downs cc and dead. I can see you point I loved again pvp, Aion pvp experience is unique on its own and amazingly addictive I could go for hours on my glad pvping and not feel boring or anything. But blade and soul pvp is another unique system, you need to get used to it, not every game you play should have a similar pvp to the game you like. I tried different games that would allow me to quit Aion but no other game was able to provide me with a pvp system equal or better than Aion. I decided to stop trying to find similar pvp system that is until blade and soul came out.

 

Here is what I like about blade and soul compare to Aion on pvp. 

 

On Aion I could pop 4k+2k jump into a bunch of people aoe with my glad and bum 5 seconds later everyone was dead. Or I could face a skilled sorcerer and get two hits and die. Which I still enjoyed you have to think hard and fast to beat strong opponents but or wait for the opponent to make a mistake and take the opportunity. (well You know that game)

 

But here on Blade and Soul, the fights are not 5 seconds or two hits it actually required true skills and knowing how to play your class and how to counter other classes this is much harder to do here than Aion. anyways hope you see my point and not being rude here. Peace 

Edited by Tzukune

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i feel like for a better experience for the first tip for blade and soul would be to allow changes to the hotkeys to make them more manageable for most classes the hotkeys are difficult from where they are and can be alot easier for people who has a keyboard and mouse or controller set up for gaming 

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Solori   

I'm sorry to say.. But Aion was a really bad pvp example. Right up there with WoW.

You CAN NOT play BnS the same way,

 

I would suggest you research the class you want to play. Watch streamers that play said class.

Then practice.

 

It sounds like you want to have success with the minimal amount of effort and if that's the case. BnS is not for you.

We will have versions very close to KR and that game even now has a very successful Esports Scene. I expect NA and EU to follow (especially since NA and EU gamers have a long standing competitive grudge against eachother)

So if you aren't having fun in this game with it's combat system. Either adapt. 

 

Or leave.

 

This game isn't going to change to cater to your desire to have a Aion/WoW clone.

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