I am a bit disappointed about the PvP combat.

[Burhead]

skimmed through half the post because i dident have the patience to read  EVERYTHING. but my general concensus is that A. leveling isent hard, it dosent take months or weeks to hit 45. mmo's in general are almost if not always balanced around cap, if you arent at cap and its not hard to hit. just hit cap. sure they could make the pvp arena kind of like GW 2spvp is. but half of the experience of the game is actually learning your class  step by step and not just starting pvp at level 15 and realizing you have 3x the skills and you also have to make your entire build (while not knowing anything) in those first 15 or 25 seconds or whatever the timer is.

 

from the little experience i have in the game it feels pretty fluid and meaning ful, the counters are nice, having pvp centered around landing and avoiding CC is also a nice touch and not just mindless do your highest dps rotation and whoever  does it better wins. ive played games like that (original cabal comes to mind) and it wasent enjoyable.

 

honestly please as said before experience the entire game , get to cap first before you try to criticize the core of the game. and you are getting a tad too defensive on people giving your argument counter arguments. the guy gave you calm precise and realistic responses and you said he should gtfo your thread?

[Eecka]

18 hours ago, Tjaranis said:

It is a choice; arbitrary difficult increase or actually difficulty increase.

Personally I think it is a HUGE mistake that ncsoft have choosen to go the “arbitrary difficulty” route with this game and I hope they will rethink this for their next product.

You could easily speed up the fast pace of combat in B&S by simply removing stances/modes and let all abilities (not pre-req KD, other effects) be used from a single set of hotbars with hotkeys, which would focus more on the actual difficulty instead of the extra addition of “more clicks” to add arbitrary difficulty that truly wouldn’t be needed in a game like this.

I've heard this same "arbitrary difficulty" argument before in other games, and I've never been able to get it.

So, EVERYTHING that is difficult in EVERY VIDEO GAME is arbitrary. The easiest game with no "arbitrary difficulty" will have a text on screen "Press Enter to win". Every single step after that is adding "arbitrary difficulty", the devs realize that pressing Enter over and over again isn't very engaging, so they think of ways to make the game more challenging.

Different games pull this "arbitrary difficulty" in different ways. Some make it about strategy, some make it about having to manage and keep an eye on a lot of different things at once, sometimes it's about having very simple controls but the speed of the game being extremely high, sometimes it's about adding 75 ability hotbars, and sometimes it's about managing stances during combat.

There is no such thing as "natural difficulty" in games, the difficulty is ALWAYS artificial. There's a HUUUUUUUUUUGE amount of MMO players that consider the "piano style" hotbar MMO combat completely arbitrary. 

 

And now here comes the real shocker: None of those ways of making the game arbitrarily more difficult is inherently better or worse than the other, it comes down to player preference. What you consider "arbitrary difficulty" in BnS might be the exactly right type of difficulty that another player has been looking for.

 

If you loved PvP in Aion, there's countless similarily functioning hotbar tab targeting MMOs that you can go and play. BnS has one of the most unique combat systems in MMOs, and instead of either A, appreciating the uniqueness or B, accepting that you like traditional hotbar combat more, you ask for this game to be changed into every other MMO out there? Meh, just accept that BnS is what it is and see if you can enjoy it, if not, move on.

Oh and as someone else already stated, this game was already released years ago, the version we have is FAR behind what Korea has right now, and it's 110% certain that they're not going to randomly change the combat system of the western version or other pointless stuff, but that they will try to push out the patches and catch up to the Korean version.

 

[FozyX]

Haha Aion what a joke! Remember playing that shitty game way back in 2009. Getting sleeped by a Sorcerer then 2shotted by their DP skill and other nukes. Then the Ranger class with all their RNG damage abilitys that could almost 2shot people if they were lucky. Also the laggy combat that had you get stuck in animations so you didnt have 100% control of your character. The only class in Aion that took some skills (when I played) was Assassin because of the fast paced combat.

Oh almost forgot about Spirit Masters! Chain fear you from 100% down to 0% health, and there was NOTHING you could do about it (except have another person playing the Cleric class dispel you)

Yea you go back and play that failure of a game with all the other 10 players whos still playing it.

[InfinityParadox]

What are you saying; all I see are comparisons to Aion? This games combat system is by-far the fastest I've seen in a while. I'm not sure how far you've gotten on the PvP ladder, but if you play someone skilled the skill gap is quite apparent. Also, this arbitrary difficulty nonsense makes no sense. If there was a difficulty ceiling that dictated mastery of a class, no one would win a match - according to your logic. Being outplayed in life and in-game will always decide the winner. Skill has no ceiling.

[808180_1452549837]

I stopped reading this at "Aion"

[Ladydropperjamesi]

How on earth are people already complaining and demanding changes?

[Satou]

I Totally understand how you feel. You see, I've been playing Street Fighter 4 for years, and recently decided to try out Super Smash Bros. I've only played one character, MegaMan, for a few days, but I immediately saw problems with the game. First of all, the stages are just too big. It's completely unnecessary to have platforms to jump on instead of a linear stage like in Street Fighter because it creates an arbitrary difficulty in regards to situational awareness and wasted movement and effort.

 

I went to the Super Smash Bros. forum to tell people how much better the game would be if it incorporated elements from Street Fighter 4, but they all said my reasoning was ridiculous.

[Aimscoes]

Better than wow where u facepalm someone in 3 seconds 

[OneWhoHasNoName]

Wow, I wanna high five you bro, on the face, with a fcking chainsaw. Go whine someplace else, or better yet go back to your "Aion", retarded pleb.

[Sihnar]

If you don't like the game's combat system that's too bad. They're not going to overhaul the pvp of a game that has lived on its competitive scene for three years.

[Jinjii]

Your first mistake was comparing this game to Aion.  That's like comparing a pig and a cow: they're both meat but they're different animals, if you want beef don't ask for pork and expect it to taste like damn cow.

 

This is coming from a fellow Aion player of 4 years and as MOST Aion players are aware, the pvp is completely broken.  Unless you have billions of kinah and hours to spend spamming Eternal Bastion for cera medals to get Officer pvp gear, most of the time when you are innocently out gathering aether some sin will jump out of nowhere and own you in a blurred flurry.  Or I get called a hacker because I wear an MR set and an SM's fear missed (fun times).

 

I am so glad I don't have to deal with all that elitist bs on BnS because that's the reason I quit and I was a VERY geared Chanter.  

 

BnS pvp makes for equal opportunities for those new and old to pvp itself.  In arena you aren't able to pot out of binds and grapples, you aren't able to heal yourself and you don't have a 'gear' advantage.  YES there is bopae but for the most part, people won't have it until 45 anyway.

 

Not to mention BnS is an actual Esport and Aion is just a wisp that wishes it was with people that think they are.

 

If you want a pvp system like Aion, Aion NA Siel is as active as always~

[Jresyn]

If you want Aion, then go play Aion?

Like others have stated before, this is Blade & Soul... Either adapt to the play style or don't play, it's quite simple.

[Lick]

why do people comment on pvp without hitting 45? you have basically no skills until like level 30+ and even then at 45 is a different game in arena

 

 

 

[lmaogg]

Lol don't complain about core gameplay mechanics which can't be change. Don't enjoy the game? Just quit.

 

Did op really think that devs will revamp the core mechanics just by him crying here about designs. Its not even a lack of key binding issue which can be fix easily.

[Tjaranis]

 

your comments pretty much proofs what is wrong with the EU community and why publishers generally hates us -.-

ignorance idiocy, personal threats, muggery, and not a single person trying to actually argue the subject.....

ow what joy lol...

 

"there is no cure for stupidity, only with time the stupid will die and hopefully no more will be allowed to grow up"

 

[Shuchin]

Sorry for not reading through all of it, but I have the impression one major point of dissatisfaction was that arena matches play out very one-sided most of the time, with rarely an "even matchup" feeling, is that correct?

 

My thought about this is that this is clearly a design decision of the B&S developers. Unlike in my Aion time, where PvP often felt like a DPS race (especially with me as a Templar), Blade and Soul relies heavily on skill at stringing combos together and mistakes that can cost you the match. If you blow your escapes too early against a KFM, and that KFM then starts a perfect 3rf stun lock + air combo, you go 100-0 and that's deserved, because it takes a very good KFM to pull that off. The next match might go exactly the opposite, with you winning with 90% HP left, against the same guy.

 

Once I realized that it's just a matter of small mistakes building up to huge disadvantages, the fact that I get such variability in matches only contributed to the thrill for me, and did not cause dissatisfaction any more. But I can understand if people have a desire for 2nd chances, and longer fights. But then B&S is not optimal for them, and many other players would be dissatisfied with a higher HP pool. It cannot be optimal for everyone...

[Navhkrin]

On 20.01.2016 at 2:18 PM, Tjaranis said:

 

your comments pretty much proofs what is wrong with the EU community and why publishers generally hates us -.-

ignorance idiocy, personal threats, muggery, and not a single person trying to actually argue the subject.....

ow what joy lol...

 

"there is no cure for stupidity, only with time the stupid will die and hopefully no more will be allowed to grow up"

 

Nothing is wrong with EU community. There is no ignorance, we have read all your so called "arguments" , and we have seen that in truth, they are just some non-sense coming from a guy who completely fails to understand depth of BnS combat. And whats worser is you are comparing the game famous of its combat with a game which probably has one of the worst mmo combat. People cant even take you for serious after that point. The combat of BnS is beyond what Aion can ever hope to even dream of. And no, its not a matter of roflstomping, its just you are getting roflstomped and falling into misconception.

Combat of this game is about combing your opponent in fully actioın based game, which is what makes CC important, but not that important. You have to make your enemy lose his control so you can unleash skills after each other. And thats how it LOGICALLY would work, and thats what it makes it beautiful.

 

So , the combat you want is like this =

 

 

Combat of BnS currentlly works like this =

 

 

At this point when you attempt to defend a system of slapping each other to death, people really cant take you for serious.

[wolftonrei]

It's sad that you can't dig the combat. personally i would find it as a KFM that if all movement was ratcheted up it would make those that can ensnare their opponent way more powerful as i would not be able to keep the distance closed if they run out of my range. Plus if every one was moving at a million miles a minute it would be pretty hard to even land an attack seeing as all melee classes have to actually aim most of their attacks. But hey to each their own.

[Ellz]

Anyone that thinks they can use previous experience to help them in Blade and Soul will have an extremely rude awakening. 

The skill cap is monstrous in BnS and the learning curve is even more severe.

Aion gave the illusion of complexity through flashy animations and flavor text, whilst in reality it was a very simple system. 

BnS has this illusion of being simple and basic, whilst in reality it's incredibly complex and extremely difficult. 

 

My recommendation is several things:

1. Spend time learning how to play to fit your style.

2. Don't play. 

3. Strive to make polite suggestions from your point of view

[KINGofBLADES]

@ OP.. Your not even max level yet and your talking about class balance in PvP? are you insane lol

 

/doublefacepalm

[Rawrzory]

Hmm had a bad runnin with pvp aswell in this game. Put on pvp outfit. Run into some desert pvp quest zone. Get killed in 2 hits/gangbanged. Repeat x 3. Put on normal custome. Run down desert pvp zone. Gather my teeth and salt. Move on to do normal quests. 

 

All in all It's quite different from all other mmo action based pvp games i played (dragon nest, tera, C9. Tera matching this one the best i suppose). Sofar from all my games i still find C9 to offer the best balanced pvp for MY tastes. Still that game doesn't offer open world pvp or a open world at all for that matter. This does.

 

So 2 options are left.

 

1. Quit game, because of formentioned reasons.

2. Man up, take a chill pill and let pvp slide.

 

I will go for 2. PvE is enjoyable enough for me for now. This game has my mind bogged as how pvp should funktion. That is not to blame on the game though, but purely at my own inability to actually learn the (fine) mechanics of this game. So what choice will you make ?

[Chesnya]

I didn't even read because many long posts ( i got tired) but if you're not max lvl, and you pvp, don't whine if you lose. also, BnS has the best pvp combat in pretty much all MMO's atm. soooo 

[abrakadouche]

OP, your claims and explanations about the different games are more subjective than objective. It's filled with a lot of biased opinions, emotional attachment to Aion, and a huge amount of "I want the game to be changed this way cause i know best" BS. Also, you belittle the intellect of other individuals because they don't share your views. Are you a Nazi by chance? 

 

TL;DR I like the difficulty/control/countercontrol BNS presents. I'd rather not be a robot herp derp pushing buttons while the system takes all the fun away.

 

I have an awesome brain and I like using it.

 

Anyways allow me an attempt at explaining your so called "arbitrary difficulty" 

 

I have played Aion on its release. It's a beautiful game. Crafting was one the best I've experienced, But combat was sluggish and boring.

Sluggish because certain skills, like the gladiator smack down, had long animations where your character just stands there performing it. You couldn't move AT ALL. The whole point of the skill was to CC and deal dmg. All with the single press of the button and usually accompanied with a cast bar.

 

Blade and soul has a similar uncontrolled animation in the form of aerials. The difference is it takes skill and planning to set it up. You have to outplay your opponent, waste their removals, cc and launch em up. The opponent has their opportunity to dodge and counter. All in real time without cast bar indicators. 

 

So as you can see, it is not as easy in BNS. In your case it came across as "its too much work and complexity, why not just simplify it into a single button/step". What BNS is doing is putting more control in the hands of the player, while Aion had the system automate most of what i think are the fun parts of pvp/combat. 

 

I like the control it gives me and my opponents because it makes for more interesting gameplay. Instead of the computer playing for me. I don't need blaring castbar indicators either. They make it easy mode, its like the game is screaming "LOOK INTERUPT NOW, RIGHT NOW, YOU SEE THIS RIGHT?". There's a thing in martial arts called feinting, and i feel BNS simulates this better without cast bars. It makes it harder for the opponent to guess what you're doing. There's no foul play because the animations are still consistent. Yea lynns are harder to read but i think it will be fine once i get used to them. 

 

Movability ? BNS has plenty of that + immobilizations + escapes. I'd rather have more movements skills on CD than just fly acrosss a map at mach speed with my opponent going at mach speed as well. Moreover relative speed is what matters in combat. Even in Aion and Black Desert your speed compared to your opponents isn't that different.

(speaking of black desert i watched a video of skilled players dueling, it lasted over 30 mins, first 5-10 mins was cool, but after that it was rinse and repeat because they couldn't kill each other, they moved and ran A LOT. it got boring) 

 

CC oriented gameplay IS in fact in Aion as you admitted. BNS has more active damage mitigation in dodge, counter, block. All relatively low cd (no cd for some). That's why you don't see damage done unless the victim is CC'd. I think that about covers that...

 

Except I'll explain why that makes BNS better. Aion has tab targetting and is like 2 ppl standing still facing each other just shooting paint balls back and forth. BNS is more like 2 ppl at a trampoline gym jumping around shooting paint balls at each other. What takes more skills? What is more fun?

 

CC fits into this in the form of base ball bats. The first aformentioned pair takes turns swinging bats at each other while remaining still right next to each other. The BNS pair duck and dodge when they are being swung at. What takes more skills? What is more fun?

 

“best position highest chance of winning”

This statement involves more than just physical positioning. In real life physical positioning might give a much greater advantage / disadvantage due to real world physics.

In video games  “best position highest chance of winning”  is also about, what skills do I have available / are on CD compared to my opponent. 

 

And about your fixes... it seems you want to just take away each classes unique cc's / escapes. Generalizing the class tool kits. I hate that. I like class diversity. 

 

Generalizing dodges isn't so bad. Games like dark souls  and guild wars have it, and it works. Except in dark souls, when the dude your dueling just wants to dodge roll all day. In which case you will never kill him if he's any good. But hey worth a try, it just doesn't seem to be much of a problem to me. 

 

[TakunDes]

The chance of this thread making any impact on game development is almost close to null. Why are you comparing this game to Aion? I would rather compare it with Guild Wars 2 instead tbh. 

 

Aion combat is nothing like this, if you find Aion to be a better game why not just continue to play Aion?

[Carsten]

Spot a spoiled brat 101.... 

This is some of the most balanced Pvp i seen in long time.  problem is people are being either to *cricket*ing stupid or lazy to even bother understanding this game. 
I pvp´ed a bit on my Destroyer before i hit max level, I was faced with problem when meeting other destroyers. I was at a handicap due to level different. 
I  leveled up, went online spent 4 hours reading about my class, understanding the combos, the weakness and strengh of this class. 
I had problems with summoners tho they should be easy for me. so i went onto youtube and watched a few matches sum vs des.  and learned what to care for and how to counter. 

So now i´m level 45. i have a basic understanding of class. i reached 1600 rating, 1500 3v3( 4 w 1l).  i´m aware that to improve will require playing to get ´skills ´

I dont experince much of the ´facestomp´you talk about. and when i do. It clearly a player that has no idea how to counter, avoid or use combos. 

our 3v3 got matched agienst same team 3 times 5 am in the morning. first we won without lose. second we won with 1 player 10% hp. third we lost with their last player being 20% hp.  it was acutally the most intense fights since both parties tried their best