Mage

Blade and Soul is being censored despite them previously saying otherwise.

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I don't have to have. I read the description as presented by the people doing the localization. It's quite easy to know that's not a quest I'd want to do.

 

 

Insults aren't necessary. Though I welcome your accusations if it means I'm pissing off someone who enjoys roleplaying as taking part in sexually harassing women.

 

Completely agree with you Naunet.  I feel the same way you do.

It doesn't bother me. B&S is catering to a different market in the West than it is in Asia, and I'd rather have more female players feel comfortable playing the game than have them made uncomfortable by what amounts to male adolescent humor.  Obviously the West (or the US at least) has a different view of how violence is portrayed vs how sexual situations are portrayed, so let's not pretend that they're interchangeable here.

^^ Good post!

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Once again, where is sexual objectification ? Once again, where is the r@pe story ?

 

 

 

Not in the game anymore.  The incredible thing is that people are *complaining* about that.

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I don't know where they found people who don't "use porn", but apparently they're out there, and they don't think highly of women.

 

Highly religious people, most likely, which makes that conclusion not surprising at all.

 

They might get different results if they focused specifically on violent porn, because as you point out, there aren't that many people who don't use *some* form of porn.

 

But this is getting a bit far from NCsoft's decision to change a side quest (which is not censorship, because as someone posted upthread, censorship requires *official* action: a government, or in some countries, a church.  A publisher editing their own product does not qualify.)

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Hiei   

But of course roleplaying a solider who goes around killing hundreds upon hundreds of people is perfectly fine. Just don't steal a virtual women's panties in a video game, or you're sexually harassing women. Talk about messed up priorities, if you really believe someones actions in a video game are reflective of their real world values... Then honestly you guys are more scary people than the guys roleplaying "harassing women" will ever be. 

 

Again, I'm completely fine with the quest change & actually support it. But some of the arguments being made here are at the least silly, at the worst downright scary that people hold such vacuous positions.

 

To be clear I'm of the opinion that one's actions within a video game are (not towards other players to be clear) have absolutely zero reflection in their real world character. But if you people believe they do (which is a very right-wing position) an think that someone stealing a virtual women's panties makes them an harasser of women, but are completely fine with us murdering each other in war... 

 

Then not only are you a seriously scary person that should probably get some help. But I seriously hope I don't meet you in-game. 

Edited by Hiei

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Mage   

You know, I might have given people, ITT, the assumption that I agree and support the events of the quest. I don't. It is wrong to force any person of any gender into marriage. However, just because I don't agree with the customs of the world of BnS doesn't mean I want it censored. I want to experience the BnS world as intended by the Korean Devs, not the world that a minority of westerners want. 

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Hiei   

You know, I might have given people, ITT, the assumption that I agree and support the events of the quest. I don't. It is wrong to force any person of any gender into marriage. However, just because I don't agree with the customs of the world of BnS doesn't mean I want it censored. I want to experience the BnS world as intended by the Korean Devs, not the world that a minority of westerners want. 

 

I have a similar opinion, but it leads me to a different conclusion. Sadly you do sometimes have to make sacrifices to games source material & diversity in today's world. Just because I don't agree with an issue, doesn't mean I don't want it in my media. It's there to build a richer story & character to a world. 

 

However there is a decent enough portion of western society that aren't all that liberal. They don't believe in individual freedoms & are completely pro-censorship. Sadly we have to share a video game with these people like we have the share the real world. It's better to make minor alterations to avoid upsetting rabid mob. 

 

The type of people who would rather tell you how offended they're, than actually do anything constructive for the world. The people who like to elect themselves as moral arbitrator for not themselves, but everyone around them. As much as my liberal side wants me to stay true to ideals. I think we have to accept that certain edits will have to be made to appease the new generation of constantly offended idiots. 

Edited by Hiei

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Estribo   

Read this line right here:

 

"When I'm presented with the choice of writing a character and story line that is pretty reprehensible without it being critical commentary on his actions, or reworking it to a more positive direction that isn't going to make me and others squirm, I'm not exactly going to hesitate to go for the latter."

 

Read it again.

 

Now we can discuss why I so despise censorship in any form.

 

Steven's statement holds two red flags: he admits that he fully intends to continue onward with this sort of 'localization fix', and he simultaneously admits that he will do so because it makes "me and others squirm".

 

That is wrong. That is so wrong that I posit only an individual with his particular skewed world view could attempt to justify changing any portion of a game's writing just to suit his own tastes, even if the act of doing so happens to rub his intended audience the wrong way. The man is not an author working on his own novel, he is a paid 'professional' with the task of (ostensibly) localizing a game from Korean to English. That is his job. Some may take his job description as a license to do whatever he likes with the source material, but that type of attitude chafes at my respect for the originality of a work in an official capacity. What he has done here is not localization, it is Californication - San Fransciscization if you'd like to be cute about it. The fact that this man placed glorified fan fiction into an official client release, then explained his actions away by claiming that the portion he changed made him "squirm" and was "frankly misogynistic", is disgusting. The fact that he then had the gall to claim that what he had done was not censorship is even more so. Don't *cricket* on my head and tell me it's snowing.

 

So where does this leave us? This man has admitted that he fully intends to go forward with this mindset as he continues work on the NA/EU release of the game. What can we expect to be altered next? Where is the line drawn? What is 'objectionable' enough to be changed for the benefit of our delicate hearts, and what is presented with enough "critical commentary" to be acceptable? Slippery slope fallacy? I suppose. I cannot prove that he has censored anything more than what he cops to, and I expect his willingness to admit to this type of behavior is non-existent now that he grasps that it will not be well received by many. That being said, I am willing to bet that these sorts of alterations will crop up again, possibly even on a more meaningful questline in the game. After all, Steven has an agenda and both the desire and means to see it pushed.

 

I see some people calling the original quest text "juvenile" or "gross". Let me take a moment and explain something to those people:

 

This game is a 'Mature' game.

 

By the ESRB's simplified standards, the term is intended to keep those under the age of 17 (in the States) from playing it. But true 'maturity' isn't something you magically obtain at a specific age. Rather, one must secure it through the growth of their conscience and critical thinking skills, through their perspective on life and the decisions they make with regard to that. That's what maturity is, but it's more important to the topic at hand to understand what maturity is not.

 

Pretending that something does not exist does not make you mature. Covering your eyes and ears and forcing 'objectionable' content out of your senses does not make you mature. Are there men in this world who truly hate women, and are willing to use them as toys for their own amusement? Yes indeed. Are there women in this world who truly hate men, and are willing to use them as toys for their own amusement? Yes indeed. So why is it that I see the label 'misogynistic' thrown about so carelessly, yet scarce can find the label 'misandric' being applied to anything? Why is it acceptable for a writer to alter a quest to avoid a woman preyed upon by a "misogynistic philanderer", but the same sort of overly concerned mindset is not applied to the quest where we come across two village men being held in *cricket*ing cages like animals by a madwoman with a taste for 'hotties'? Is it okay because they can't be impregnated by their captor? Or are we to take away that men are the only creatures capable of cruelty or evil? Why is it that the vast majority of scummy, dishonest, backstabbing, perverse, despicable characters in fictional works (especially video games) are male? Why are situations where women act in evil ways not decried by those who claim an egalitarian bent? Why the double standard?

 

Food for thought.

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Naunet   

To the people talking about quests involving killing people: Pretty much none of those quests were played up for sick laughs. You don't go killing the traumatized martial artists for giggles and then laugh later about how they got what they deserved. The entire tone of quests like that is completely different from the quest described in the OP.

 

Loaded and intellectually dishonest terminology.

 

Lycandi are forced to marry someone if that person takes their clothing. There is no indication that the intercourse was consensual and plenty to suggest it wasn't, considering the marriage was forced.

Edited by Naunet

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I'll point it out simply. You give the example of murder and violence in games also being bad, well that's just really what games are about. In the same way, perverted and sexual feelings are what porn is about. I don't think you could give me a good reason why they should be combined without coming off as a pervert.

Not to mention the reason violence is ok and sex is not is because people actually realize that murder is terribly wrong, but sex on the other hand is a common everyday thing. So showing perverted this is not ok because more people will not know the difference, proof? This entire thread right here is full of people who think it's actually morally right.

 

No one ever said games were only reserved for murder and violence, because even if they tried, there are literally thousands of examples otherwise. So no, that's not what games are about; they are about whatever the creator makes them to be. In what world do things stay black and white, only one idea can stick with itself, and not mix with anything else...? As for examples, I gave you all the example you need in that experiences help you learn about the world around you and make your own judgment. That doesn't make me a pervert at all, but if you insist that it does, well, go right ahead.

Showing perverted things isn't okay. Hmm... you're playing a game with fantasy-sized breasts and jiggle physics and you're telling me perverted things don't have a place in society. It's like walking into a bar and being upset that an IPA is on tap since you hate the taste of hops, but you will sip your cosmopolitan because that's the drink you've developed a taste for. As I said in my last post, the world will never conform to your sense of "right" no matter how hard you try.

 

Again, people will know the difference of what's right and wrong by making their own judgments. That's also what parents are for -- to guide their children into becoming adults capable of having their own brain.

 

Easy summary for you: people should decide themselves after parent's help, not by your demand or anyone else's.

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Mage   

I have a similar opinion, but it leads me to a different conclusion. Sadly you do sometimes have to make sacrifices to games source material & diversity in today's world. Just because I don't agree with an issue, doesn't mean I don't want it in my media. It's there to build a richer story & character to a world. 

 

However there is a decent enough portion of western society that aren't all that liberal. They don't believe in individual freedoms & are completely pro-censorship. Sadly we have to share a video game with these people like we have the share the real world. It's better to make minor alterations to avoid upsetting rabid mob. 

 

The type of people who would rather tell you how offended they're, than actually do anything constructive for the world. The people who like to elect themselves as moral arbitrator for not themselves, but everyone around them. As much as my liberal side wants me to stay true to ideals. I think we have to accept that certain edits will have to be made to appease the new generation of constantly offended idiots. 

 

So, we should be fine with having our views oppressed because the oppressors don't agree with it?

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Hiei   

TLDR, Censor any sexuality, pretend every one is barbie and ken! remove any concept of procreation, its done by hugs, now then timmy, here is a shotgun, go blow the *cricket*ing head off that homeless guy!

 

You forgot to tell Timmy to set up a shelter for the homeless women that's left behind. Because of course the homeless man had to much privilege & deserved the shotgun instead.  >.>

 

So, we should be fine with having our views oppressed because the oppressors don't agree with it?

 

No, but we should accept that liberals never win every battle. An the pro-censorship SJW's will either take an inch, or attempt to fight for a mile. I'd rather give them an inch personally. 

Edited by Hiei

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Yamyatos   

I actually would have liked to play the original quest. It sounds like fun. It sounds funny. What they made it, on the other side, does not sound like a lot of fun.. it sounds like the same old boring type of quest im not even going to read and just click through. Thanks for ruining one of the only few unique quests humor wise in the game.

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Kirikiku   

So very amusing. It's not as though we run around slaughtering other human beings, and a very real representation of children ... Lyn. But god forbid some pervy cheating male steals a woman's clothing, and for all those feminists out there? please leave, I'd rather not have my gender, being female - further misrepresented and further coined into being this so called 'delicate fragile maiden'

 

Pouting on about this 'evil man' peeping on bare naked women! OH DEAR GOD ITS NOT LIKE WE CAN RUN AROUND IN BATHING SUITS! ... and dear god, its not like Blade & Soul has the files for nudity. But in the end, as always, nothing we say will matter, its a westernization of a beautiful storyline, of various 'folklores and tales' But hey ... It's not like within a month, or less we'll have mods to 1) replace the english dub to Korean again or Japanese, or chinese ... whichever! 2) unpack the XML.dat file and correct every westernized storyline.

 

I've brought a Masters Pack, and I'm probably going to stay on the Korean or Taiwanese servers.

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But of course roleplaying a solider who goes around killing hundreds upon hundreds of people is perfectly fine. Just don't steal a virtual women's panties in a video game, or you're sexually harassing women. Talk about messed up priorities, if you really believe someones actions in a video game are reflective of their real world values... Then honestly you guys are more scary people than the guys roleplaying "harassing women" will ever be. 

 

Again, I'm completely fine with the quest change & actually support it. But some of the arguments being made here are at the least silly, at the worst downright scary that people hold such vacuous positions.

 

To be clear I'm of the opinion that one's actions within a video game are (not towards other players to be clear) have absolutely zero reflection in their real world character. But if you people believe they do (which is a very right-wing position) an think that someone stealing a virtual women's panties makes them an harasser of women, but are completely fine with us murdering each other in war... 

 

Then not only are you a seriously scary person that should probably get some help. But I seriously hope I don't meet you in-game. 

I hope I meet them so I can slaughter them >.> I will do so by flying in the air, disappearing and teleporting behind them, stabbing them with lightning, and setting off a bomb underneath my feet which only hurts my enemies... all while my giant breasts jiggle in my high heel shoes. Why? Because murder is okay... since no one is actually receiving the deed.

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Mai   

I remember this quest from the Japanese server. I remember reading the english translation of the quest which wasnt exactly perfect but one could still make sense from what they were saying...first thing i did was to tell my husband about the whole story and then we both laughed and thinking "WTF i never seen a quest like that in a game before thats amazing" 

    Despite the fact that the guy was indeed a misogynist i never once thought that stealing a womans clothes was a sexual harassment , i know it is but at that moment i didnt see it that way cause its a game after all...but we can see this happening everywhere, in comics , movies , real life... i dont really see why people are shocked so much and dislike it in a game...but thats just me.

    Honestly the thing that cought my attention in the whole story was something most people ignored~ "certain things happened to him in prison and he became impotent" lol  i mean thats what made me be like "wtf" honestly ! I never before seen in a game such a thing! I think we all assume or know what happened to him in there and he lost his cricket lol but nobody focused on that but rather on what happend to the "nymphs"..

    If the woman was sexually harassed then wasnt the guy harassed also or even worse? Just saying...

In a way he did get what he deserved..in prison. Yes he tried to force a marriage , but in the end it was the Lycandi people that forced him instead...i question their ethics also lol forcing a marriage between 2 people that hate each other is equally lame.

 

Despite the weirdness of this story i honestly thought what an amazing game this is and how it was the first time in my gaming life to see such an interesting, different and bold story full of lies, betrayals and murder. And its gona be the first game i play also that i will read the quest text and watch the cut scenes w.o skipping them this time.

Honestly i was more shocked when i saw Jinsoyun killing in cold blood a bunch of kids i spend time saving, in my face than what a perveted d-bag did.

Sorry for the story spoilers xD

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Teisho   

If you guys want things to change this badly you should send a message to the Korean developers letting them know that you think this is intolerable.

 

The moderators here will probably lock the thread and let it die.

 

Here is a list of people you could contact.

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AttacKat   

So, we should be fine with having our views oppressed because the oppressors don't agree with it?

LMAO, you are taking this way too far. Your view is your view, the publisher in this case didn't oppress you in any shape or form.

 

The publisher in this case did not charge you a fee, they are offering the game to you for free. In the case where you did pay them for the founder pack, they didn't force you into buying the game, and the option of a full refund is still available.

 

The right to play this game or not is yours, as well as your right to vote with your wallet. You aren't being held with a gun pointed at your head.

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Estribo   

The absurdity of all these arguments is that the alteration of the original text could actually be construed as cultural appropriation.

 

The Lycandi tribes have a custom to the effect that any tribeswoman whose clothes are stolen (potentially tribesmen, as well) must marry the one who stole said clothes. That is their tradition, and there is no mention made of the woman whose clothes were stolen being averse to fulfilling the duties laid upon her as a Lycandi. Now, that tradition has essentially been erased from existence. How dare you oppress the native peoples by forcing your sensibilities upon their way of life? How dare you come into their lands and proselytize them at the expense of their sacred traditions?

 

That's straight hyperbole, and I know it, but my point still stands. The type of person who feels this quest is 'problematic' is the likely the same type of person who feels that what settlers did to Native Americans during the colonization of America was wrong. Again, double standard.

 

Even funnier, the Lycandi woman who ended up being "forced" to marry Ma Ture is considered "ugly" by him on account of being "muscled". She's physically stronger than him and a trained warrior besides. It sucks that she's stuck with the kind of man who finds a fit woman unattractive, and that her husband is an open air pervert with a taste for adultery, but it certainly sounds to me as though she's capable of skinning him alive if he ever gets too uppity with her. Hell, I'd probably be more worried about finding him with some bruises than her.

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Kirikiku   

The absurdity of all these arguments is that the alteration of the original text could actually be construed as cultural appropriation.

 

The Lycandi tribes have a custom to the effect that any tribeswoman whose clothes are stolen (potentially tribesmen, as well) must marry the one who stole said clothes. That is their tradition, and there is no mention made of the woman whose clothes were stolen being averse to fulfilling the duties laid upon her as a Lycandi. Now, that tradition has essentially been erased from existence. How dare you oppress the native peoples by forcing your sensibilities upon their way of life? How dare you come into their lands and proselytize them at the expense of their sacred traditions?

 

That's straight hyperbole, and I know it, but my point still stands. The type of person who feels this quest is 'problematic' is the likely the same type of person who feels that what settlers did to Native Americans during the colonization of America was wrong. Again, double standard.

 

Even funnier, the Lycandi woman who ended up being "forced" to marry Ma Ture is considered "ugly" by him on account of being "muscled". She's physically stronger than him and a trained warrior besides. It sucks that she's stuck with the kind of man who finds a fit woman unattractive, and that her husband is an open air pervert with a taste for adultery, but it certainly sounds to me as though she's capable of skinning him alive if he ever gets too uppity with her. Hell, I'd probably be more worried about finding him with some bruises than her.

 

Please post more ... this logic is delicious! <3 ( No sarcasm. )

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Mage   

No, but we should accept that liberals never win every battle. An the pro-censorship SJW's will either take an inch, or attempt to fight for a mile. I'd rather give them an inch personally. 

 

I rather give them nothing. If they want something, they can fight for it as I have. They can attempt to take that mile, but I'll be taking the universe. 

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AttacKat   

The absurdity of all these arguments is that the alteration of the original text could actually be construed as cultural appropriation.

 

The Lycandi tribes have a custom ... That is their tradition ...

Funny you mentioned this.

 

NCSoft changed the WHOLE Lycandi main storyline, where NONE of the Male/Female theme were even mentioned anywhere in the game, yet, no one *cricket* and moan about NCSoft took that out of the game.

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