Mage

Blade and Soul is being censored despite them previously saying otherwise.

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Teisho   

 

I feel like this topic is getting way too serious.  :wacko:

 

Have you seen the thread about this on the Dojo?

 

I think it's unfortunate that shitty, partisan moderation on BnS Dojo allowed the sister thread to become the monstrosity that it is right now. It quickly devolved into a cesspool of shitposts like "You're an SJW!" and "you're a racist!" and the constant chucking around of other meaningless insults as well as otherwise low quality posts. The Dojo is mostly a giant circlejerk anyways so I kind of expect that from them.

 

People here have been mostly tame.

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Artillis   

I'm 100% in support of their choice to change the quest in this case.  In fact I think the new way they are doing the quest described in the OP's spoilered quote sounds better.

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Waugriff   

 

Toxic masculinity in action, folks!

Is that what they call being a rational human being as opposed to a crybaby who complains about everything? Thank you for the laugh pc principal. 

Did you not read the quote the OP included?

 

 

Anyway, if you truly care to understand why people get upset over this kind of thing read this reddit thread. https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3249ff/women_of_reddit_when_did_you_first_notice_that/%20

 

The sensitivity to this kind of treatment of women even in fiction is because it happens every day to most women all over the world in real life and seeing it used carelessly in something like a game, for laughs or irrelevant storytelling in a tasteless manner that does not treat the subject material with the care and respect it deserves is offensive.

Most women around the globe have their clothes stolen and then marry said thief? 

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Here, let me lay it all out for you guys:

The writing team is being paid to do a job. That job - and I mean, it's literally in the job description - involves rewriting things that they feel, collectively, as a group, need to be rewritten for the audience. They are obligated to do this. They MUST draw in the widest net they possibly can, which includes plenty of folks who don't post on official forums or follow what the 'original' version(s) of the game contain. The whole writing team - and I mean the entire team - decided, as a group, unanimously, that this particular quest needed to be rewritten. And so it was done.

This is a mass-market product designed to be sold to hundreds of thousands if not millions of players. You are only about... oh, less than ten of them, actually. A few dozen if we include the Dojo posters (though there will be some overlap here). You are very loud, yes, but still only just a few. Most players simply aren't going to know about this change, and even fewer are going to care.

The decision has been made. You're not going to get them to revert it. You can rail on the forums all you want to, of course - and why not? Venting is healthy, after all. But you shouldn't get your hopes up that your voices will get anything reverted. Perhaps you would have far more luck if you tried to have the new version of the quest changed to be more interesting in your eyes, but it will not be reverted.

Mind you, I am someone who does not support government censorship in any way, form, or fashion. I believe all freelance artists should be free to create whatever the hell they want without fear of legal repercussions or fear of censure.

But that does not mean freedom from critique. If an artist decides to change something because the critique they received suggested it should be changed, are you going to cry out censorship? I think you would have to be a fool to do so. They decided to make the change. Not the government or some other higher entity. They decided it, as a group.

If you don't like that group... well, that's too bad! They got hired and you didn't. That's reality for ya. I'm sorry things didn't go your way in this particular instance... but I am also glad, because this instance just shows me that the writing team has a good head on their shoulders. It's not just a bunch of mostly-straight, mostly-white, mostly-cisgendered males, clearly, which also shows that the people doing the hiring know what they're doing.

I expect good things from the future. And the rest of you will be dragged into it, kicking and screaming.

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Mage   

  So what you're saying is that it is OK to treat women as sexual objects, and nothing else, if you do it in context of a particular culture where that is OK?   Do you realize that in a number of countries a woman who is raped will be sent to prison, and sometimes executed, because she didn't stop the rapist?  Would it be OK to have that in the game too?  You need to consider that showing respect to a different culture doesn't mean ignoring the parts of it that are abhorent.  Using your logic, there's nothing at all wrong with Qtar still allowing slavery. 

 

   Nope.  Doesn't work for me and such archaic and horrific things don't belong in this, or any other, game.

 

Actually, in a fictional story it is OK to write about anything you want no matter appalling or pleasant. What isn't OK is to change somebodies story because you can't handle it and it offends. If it offends you don't read that story. Or in the case of BnS skip the quest. After all, if books, games, movies removed all unpleasant content, we wouldn't see much variety. And in regard to Qtar, it is wrong. However, that is up to Qtar to fix it's culture. Same goes to Team Bloodlust and the Asian culture. It is up to them change it, not us. Instead the game should be faithfully translated. It's culture shouldn't be hidden away because there are people who can't handle that it exists in a fictional setting where things like this are common.

 

I'd like to see people try and censor the game of thrones series. 

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Waugriff   

Here, let me lay it all out for you guys:

The writing team is being paid to do a job. That job - and I mean, it's literally in the job description - involves rewriting things that they feel, collectively, as a group, need to be rewritten for the audience. They are obligated to do this. They MUST draw in the widest net they possibly can, which includes plenty of folks who don't post on official forums or follow what the 'original' version(s) of the game contain. The whole writing team - and I mean the entire team - decided, as a group, unanimously, that this particular quest needed to be rewritten. And so it was done.

This is a mass-market product designed to be sold to hundreds of thousands if not millions of players. You are only about... oh, less than ten of them, actually. A few dozen if we include the Dojo posters (though there will be some overlap here). You are very loud, yes, but still only just a few. Most players simply aren't going to know about this change, and even fewer are going to care.

The decision has been made. You're not going to get them to revert it. You can rail on the forums all you want to, of course - and why not? Venting is healthy, after all. But you shouldn't get your hopes up that your voices will get anything reverted. Perhaps you would have far more luck if you tried to have the new version of the quest changed to be more interesting in your eyes, but it will not be reverted.

Mind you, I am someone who does not support government censorship in any way, form, or fashion. I believe all freelance artists should be free to create whatever the hell they want without fear of legal repercussions or fear of censure.

But that does not mean freedom from critique. If an artist decides to change something because the critique they received suggested it should be changed, are you going to cry out censorship? I think you would have to be a fool to do so. They decided to make the change. Not the government or some other higher entity. They decided it, as a group.

If you don't like that group... well, that's too bad! They got hired and you didn't. That's reality for ya. I'm sorry things didn't go your way in this particular instance... but I am also glad, because this instance just shows me that the writing team has a good head on their shoulders. It's not just a bunch of mostly-straight, mostly-white, mostly-cisgendered males, clearly, which also shows that the people doing the hiring know what they're doing.

I expect good things from the future. And the rest of you will be dragged into it, kicking and screaming.

Thank you for the nonsensical and completely pointless post.

 

edit: the Incompetent localization team has already shown that they do not care or intend to listen to feedback which criticizes how they do things. They have their agenda and idea of how the game should go and will certainly not budge. Just because they were hired does not mean they are good at their job, nor does it mean that the community can't voice their complaints(which will ultimately fall on deaf ears). 

Edited by Waugriff

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Mage   

Mind you, I am someone who does not support government censorship in any way, form, or fashion. I believe all freelance artists should be free to create whatever the hell they want without fear of legal repercussions or fear of censure.

But that does not mean freedom from critique. If an artist decides to change something because the critique they received suggested it should be changed, are you going to cry out censorship? I think you would have to be a fool to do so. They decided to make the change. Not the government or some other higher entity. They decided it, as a group.

 

Well, they aren't the artists. In this situation Team Bloodlust are the artists and NCWest are this lady: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/elderly-woman-ruins-19th-century-fresco-in-restoration-attempt/

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Well, they aren't the artists. In this situation Team Bloodlust are the artists and NCWest are this lady: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/elderly-woman-ruins-19th-century-fresco-in-restoration-attempt/

Sorry, but no, they're literally being paid for this and any major changes are ALWAYS vetted by people higher up on the development chain.

This argument does not work for you.

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History has shown that people who find sexual content offensive and disgusting are the ones who yell the most. It makes sense why the writers would want to pertain to the "largest audience", mature or otherwise. If you really hate how this works, gather a lot of people and voice your complains. For the record, I rather the game be kept as closely related to the original as possible.

 

All I can say is, thank god they're letting us have an option for profanity and sexy outfits for Lyn. You can usually tell who you'd want as a friend that way.

Edited by Shirobine

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-bullshit-

 

It's not just a bunch of mostly-straight, mostly-white, mostly-cisgendered males

 

-keeps spouting bullshit-

 

The whole point of your post is here, you're definitely sickening.

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Also, just for the record, I would defend any instances of consensual sex in this game to the bitter end.

But there are no such instances. Hmm, what an odd turn.

The whole point of your post is here, you're definitely sickening.

What, pointing out the reality that a huge portion of the entertainment industry is still dominated by cis-gendered straight white men is sickening?

Well, I'll be. :D

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Riliane   

I am very curious of what would be the reaction of the people saying "this is an insult to  women" if the case had been the other way around. Just saying.

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Waugriff   

Sorry, but no, they're literally being paid for this and any major changes are ALWAYS vetted by people higher up on the development chain.

This argument does not work for you.

Yes I imagine it went like this:

 

Localization team: This quest is highly offensive and the majority of our players will take great offense to it! May we change it?

Bloodlust: Yes if you think it's that big of a deal

 

The Koreans have no idea what the west finds offensive and this localization team basically has free reign to censor whatever they want if they just say it will be highly controversial when in reality only they and a minority of players will ever care.

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Pim   

Did you not read the quote the OP included?

 

 

Anyway, if you truly care to understand why people get upset over this kind of thing read this reddit thread. https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3249ff/women_of_reddit_when_did_you_first_notice_that/%20

 

The sensitivity to this kind of treatment of women even in fiction is because it happens every day to most women all over the world in real life and seeing it used carelessly in something like a game, for laughs or irrelevant storytelling in a tasteless manner that does not treat the subject material with the care and respect it deserves is offensive.

Oki enough i cant read that bullshit anymore ...

 

So you guys have a real big heavy problem dont see diffrent between fiction and Real things .....This is a game not the Real World

 

First i dont see a Women i see a Human we are all human, we are all the same.

 

And please dont try to make only womens would be get bad treatment in that Real World ....this is  hypocrite 

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Mage   

Sorry, but no, they're literally being paid for this and any major changes are ALWAYS vetted by people higher up on the development chain.

This argument does not work for you.

 

For all we know the higher ups are just the money hats. Not once did they state that Team Bloodlust are the ones approving the changes. So, my argument does work for me. On top of that they are being paid for the wrong thing. This game doesn't need writers. The story was already written. What this game needed was translators. 

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Waugriff   

Also, just for the record, I would defend any instances of consensual sex in this game to the bitter end.

But there are no such instances. Hmm, what an odd turn.

What, pointing out the reality that a huge portion of the entertainment industry is still dominated by cis-gendered straight white men is sickening?

Well, I'll be. :D

Other than that being completely irrelevant, you're also a moron for using the term "cisgendered." 

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Nope, it is the simple combinated use of the words "straight" "white" and above all "cis" who is definitely sickening.

 

Please, go back to Tumblr ... Or grow up, stop supporting this *cricket* censorship and worse things among many others.

Edited by Lichtsaule

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I noticed the censorship and changes in quest lines and it bothered me. One of the quest line I noticed was censored was the one where you talk to the Soldier next to the Cerulean order camp that ask you to jump up to a rock bridge to retrieve a package. In the original game it was not a member of Cerulean order that tossed the soldier's stuff. The soldier in the original game made a remake saying it was caused by an aging virgin and a women only wore a bra (which is referring to Soha).

 

I dont know why they decided to change it since I thought it was pretty funny since it was a ongoing gag through out the game that Soha barely wears anything and the other female was far more "pure" than her character was described as.

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Ikasu   

I'd like to see people try and censor the game of thrones series. 

I just had to like this one after that.

 

I was born in Korea, and was raised by Korean parents in Canada. I learned Korean tradition from my family and my Korean friends, and Canadian culture from my Canadian teachers and friends. Maybe it's because because I know both Korean and Western cultures, but when I read the quest details provided to me (I haven't done it, but I know the folktale it's based on), I think 'that little dipshit got what he deserved (being stuck with someone he didn't want to be for his life), but that poor woman went through all that and is now stuck with this dipshit'. Koreans put emphasis on the first, since we know that thinking the first part of what I thought is what this quest is trying to make me do. It's not trying to justify what he did, nor are we saying it is flat out "funny" like a joke or something; we all know he's still an *cricket*. Westerners who don't know this put emphasis on the latter, because they lack that knowledge Koreans grew up with (or the other Westerners learned this through some other means) and can't see this, uh, "dark humor" we can.

 

Now if the translators mods devs or whoever is actually working on this could explain all of this properly, sure, it should stay in the game as the actual folktale is a part of Korean culture (which is a very romantic love story... at least that's how I remember it) and they've explained why it's not taken offensively in Korea. But explaining why a joke is funny kills the joke, and now it's a lecture instead. There are other ways to show Korean culture in this game, so might as well snip the one that's being a problem.

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I noticed the censorship and changes in quest lines and it bothered me. One of the quest line I noticed was censored was the one where you talk to the Soldier next to the Cerulean order camp that ask you to jump up to a rock bridge to retrieve a package. In the original game it was not a member of Cerulean order that tossed the soldier's stuff. The soldier in the original game made a remake saying it was caused by an aging virgin and a women only wore a bra (which is referring to Soha).

 

I dont know why they decided to change it since I thought it was pretty funny since it was a ongoing gag through out the game that Soha barely wears anything and the other female was far more "pure" than her character was described as.

 

Can you name two quests that involve discussion of male virginity and purity, or a woman stealing a man's clothing to trap him into marrying her?

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Pim   

Can you name two quests that involve discussion of male virginity and purity, or a woman stealing a man's clothing to trap him into marrying her?

 

and again that is a game .... but oki now we see your way if a male steal clothes from women ist the same like sexual harassment ? and that is bad about Women in Real life get that often ? 

 

 

But why we stop here ? how much Women get Physical Violence in Real World ? that a big problem to or ? 

 

But when iam now play  a Male Kungfu Master and attack a Female and grab her and lay her on the ground and punch she badly ? that fine than ? or we need now gender segregation in PvP ? 

Edited by Pim

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Yes I imagine it went like this:

 

Localization team: This quest is highly offensive and the majority of our players will take great offense to it! May we change it?

Bloodlust: Yes if you think it's that big of a deal

 

The Koreans have no idea what the west finds offensive and this localization team basically has free reign to censor whatever they want if they just say it will be highly controversial when in reality only they and a minority of players will ever care.

Right back at ya!

Yes, only a minority of players will ever care.

Only a minority of players will ever care.

That goes in both directions. Which is why I am flabbergasted by the folks who are SO vehemently against the change.

Other than that being completely irrelevant, you're also a moron for using the term "cisgendered."

Nope, it is the simple combinated use of the words "straight" "white" and above all "cis" who is definitely sickening.

 

Please, go back to Tumblr ... Or grow up, stop supporting this *cricket* censorship and worse things among many others.

I have to use the term 'cisgendered' because transgendered people (of which I am one) will have a completely different perspective and view on EVERYTHING than a 'normal' 'cisgendered' person will. I mean, obviously. Likewise, a gay or bisexual person will also have a different view. Likewise, a non-white person will also have a different view.

I mean, that's literally just clarity in writing. You'd rather I ignore or not point out the fact that people not like you will not think the same as you? Fat chance. If anything is sickening, it's your posts. You are contributing nothing.

N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

If you have anything of substance to add to this conversation, please do so. Otherwise, we're not going to get anywhere.

Edited by Zyrusticae

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Pim   

I have to use the term 'cisgendered' because transgendered people (of which I am one) will have a completely different perspective and view on EVERYTHING than a 'normal' 'cisgendered' person will. I mean, obviously. Likewise, a gay or bisexual person will also have a different view. Likewise, a non-white person will also have a different view.

 

 For sure ? iam not White and im Gay and i have the same view like before, i can see the difference between a Game and the Real World

 

and for sure i know how it feel to being harassment but that dont change how i see what is fiction and what is Real ......

 

An by the way for me is all the same i can steal cloth of women or not the whole quest for me ist all the same ... what me bothred is the hidden censorship about that , why not openly ask the Community about that ? and not big promise we not get censorship only things there want change is about mytholgy and things like that.... 

 

So problem is when  censorship start in hidden  when is end it ?  

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Can you name two quests that involve discussion of male virginity and purity, or a woman stealing a man's clothing to trap him into marrying her?

I can name more than a few in two different language set of the quests. Also its not a male virgin I was referring to to Soha's rival 花无痕 (which I cannot really name in English) and the leader of the gang around Cinderland.

 

I do like to point out there is a quest that involves stealing women clothing so that the quest giver can marry her (technically by culture) in Watermoon plain. There is also a follow up quest that revealed they were really married and the women is pregnant.

 

Through out the game there was are jokes and dialog talking about Soha about her either not wearing enough clothe or just unaware how revealing she is. In fact when your at the black-market a pot dog and a tourist has a dialog regarding buying Soha's bra which was changed to something else. Also in the upcoming 24 man map Supply Line a group of pirates has a picture of her hanging on the wall, they all stare at it and remark of how pretty she is.

 

As for the 花无痕 (Hua Wu Heng) the reason behind the joke is because she fell in love with a man who essentially dumped her. They eventually had a fight which let to her loosing one of her eyes. Despite that fall out she (and the man) continued to have feeling for each other. I do like to point out the game is from Oriental Asia and the setting is in the past so Chasity is very much held as a positive feature. The man I'm referring to will show up as one of the major character at level 50.

Edited by Darkshana

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