Mage

Blade and Soul is being censored despite them previously saying otherwise.

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BigJ01   

Lol wtf this thread already is up to 25 pages in the past day thats crazy.

 

I'm sure I've said some stupid things or things that didn't really make sense in my post, but really my real reason for posting in the first place was because it was so obvious that 99% of the people, including the OP, were just being 100% fake and I just categorized them as perverts just because that was just the basis of the quest.

 

In all honesty, if anyone on this thread actually was against censorship of the game in general and "wanted to preserve the game as it was" they would have brought up the much bigger issues likes name changes that have been changed (which are actually part of the main story) but no one even discussed until someone (who wasn't really on either side) brought it up. The truth is this:

 

1. This entire quest is a side story so really it doesn't have anything to do with the "story" of the game at all. I really don't see a problem with developers changing the side stories to match the specific culture of the region the game is being localized in.

 

2. Localization is not censorship, even though many people think that it is. In all truth I've actually lived in Taiwan for a part of my childhood and Asian culture is far different from western culture. Even simple things like name changes can't be considered censorship because anyone who has studied language in general knows some things in language cannot be translated. 

 

Not to mention that even if they didn't change the names, a very select few would actually know the meaning behind the names and the rest would probably just see that the name sounds like urine or just see it as a plain name before they would be able to understand what it actually means. The entire reason they are changing stuff is because there is no way any Western person would be able to understand it unless they actually know a lot about Korean culture, which very few people would. 

 

Also one of my points in my previous posts was that, especially in Asian cultures, sexual topics are viewed COMPLETELY different from the way Western cultures view them. You'd also be able to tell just by looking at sex-related crimes in each country. An easy one is *cricket*, and the most recent statistics I could find with a quick (few seconds) search on google is back in 2004. The US had 95,000 rapes that year and Korea had a little over 6,000. Now taking into account the populations (320 mil US and 50 mil S-KR) even is Korea had the same population as the US or if you just multiplied that *cricket* rate by 6 that still wouldn't even be 1/2 the amount in the US.

 

I don't know how else to explain to difference without statistics and I'm sure KR is a lot different that TW where I've lived since all the Asian cultures aren't the same either. But my point is that even if there was no localization like they're doing we wouldn't be able to understand it because we have no idea what Korean culture is like. Another quick example is that in Japanese they have an entire alphabet (Katakana) for foreign words they borrow, which is basically the same thing as they're doing to us with localization. Unless you live in a foreign culture you can't possibly understand the way they view things.

 

 

******Edit: forgot about the censor, but the cricket censor rhymes with grape. Pretty easy to tell what it is.

Edited by BigJ01

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MidBoss   

Dear Localization departments, who the hell do you think you are?

You come into a (suposedly) adult community, and tell me what I can and can not see or view?

That somehow I won't understand that Mr. pervert from the sidequest chain is a horible person?

That because this quest "offends" you and is "mysoginistic" it should be purged?

That in a game where I murder and steal, where the driving motivation is revenge, this somehow crosses the line?

That I will just accept the fact you blatently moved the goalpoasts when challanged by people referencing NCsofts commitment to not censoring the source material? (Oh they only ment the costumes)

You and your studios are a blight on this industry, in the span of a month you have soured over 6 games for me and turned me against two publishers compleatly.

I can only hope the rising backlash against this kind of stuff puts you and yours out of business soon. If not, well I can always learn a second laguage.

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Familiar   

That because this quest "offends" you and is "mysoginistic" it should be purged?

Quest is still there. It's just different now. As long as it gives the same amount of xp *shrug*. You guys get upset over the silliest things. Makes me laugh how seriously you're taking it.

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MidBoss   

Quest is still there. It's just different now. As long as it gives the same amount of xp *shrug*. You guys get upset over the silliest things. Makes me laugh how seriously you're taking it.

 

It was re-writen from the ground up, it's effectlvly gone.

Don't play semantics with me.

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AttacKat   

The Localization team here, got a translated version of the entire text from KR, it was ALREADY IN ENGLISH, as LWS himself said.

 

They then took this Translation and began *cricket*ING WITH IT, and CHANGING IT, just how i could take your entire post and *cricket*WITH IT, and CHANGE IT. 

 

Do you get the point? The localization team took already translated text, decided "eh *cricket*it, we can do better" and then went through and began editing shit, a hell of a lot more then just ONE quest. they have edited an assload of stuff including the MAIN STORY.

NA brought the right to do that from KR, didn't they? I fail to see that NA is doing anything that KR didn't give them the rights to. How they choose to *cricket*it up is also at their desecration, isn't it?

 

I recall they promised they will try to stay as close to the original as possible, never said they are doing 100% word by word subbing.

Edited by AttacKat

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Familiar   

It was re-writen from the ground up, it's effectlvly gone.

Don't play semantics with me.

Oh, I see...so you can't play the game now? Because that quest changed?

 

 

Hmmmm, yeah, that makes all kinds of sense bud. You're TOTALLY not blowing small changes (semantically speaking of course) out of proportion.

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MidBoss   

Oh, I see...so you can't play the game now? Because that quest changed?

 

 

Hmmmm, yeah, that makes all kinds of sense bud. You're TOTALLY not blowing small changes (semantically speaking of course) out of proportion.

Did I say I can't? Did I say I won't?

Why are you putting words in my mouth to defend something that as you put it "is such a small change".

What dog do you have in this fight?

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Familiar   

Did I say I can't? Did I say I won't?

Why are you putting words in my mouth to defend something that as you put it "is such a small change".

What dog do you have in this fight?

 

Dear Localization departments, who the hell do you think you are?

You come into a (suposedly) adult community, and tell me what I can and can not see or view?

That somehow I won't understand that Mr. pervert from the sidequest chain is a horible person?

That because this quest "offends" you and is "mysoginistic" it should be purged?

That in a game where I murder and steal, where the driving motivation is revenge, this somehow crosses the line?

That I will just accept the fact you blatently moved the goalpoasts when challanged by people referencing NCsofts commitment to not censoring the source material? (Oh they only ment the costumes)

You and your studios are a blight on this industry, in the span of a month you have soured over 6 games for me and turned me against two publishers compleatly.

I can only hope the rising backlash against this kind of stuff puts you and yours out of business soon. If not, well I can always learn a second laguage.

I'm sorry, I just assumed from your post that you had been soured on the game and didn't want to support them. I mean, that's what I would do if I thought their studios was "a blight" on the gaming industry, and if I hoped they would go out of business soon. Maybe I'm being illogical. Sorry about that.

 

As far as what dog do I have in this fight? Well, I'm just discussing differing points of views, that's all. Just because the majority of people who are fighting against these changes see people like me as mindless sheep (or so it would appear from many of these posts) doesn't mean I'm not entitled to post my opinion as well.

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Lurkios   

There's no censorship.

 

While the number of people who don't seem to understand the definition of censorship here stands at something around three or four, I'm still surprised. Allow me to enlighten you via dictionary.

 

cen·sor·ship
noun
the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.
 
That is, exactly, what we have here.
Edited by Lurkios

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Familiar   

 

While the number of people who don't seem to understand the definition of censorship here stands at something around three or four, I'm still surprised. Allow me to enlighten you via dictionary.

 

cen·sor·ship
noun
the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.
 
That is, exactly, what we have here.

 

Oh, I just thought since it was their game it wouldn't count as censorship. The same way you wouldn't accuse an author of censoring a book he had written if he decided to change some things about it.

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MidBoss   

I'm sorry, I just assumed from your post that you had been soured on the game and didn't want to support them. I mean, that's what I would do if I thought their studios was "a blight" on the gaming industry, and if I hoped they would go out of business soon. Maybe I'm being illogical. Sorry about that.

 

As far as what dog do I have in this fight? Well, I'm just discussing differing points of views, that's all. Just because the majority of people who are fighting against these changes see people like me as mindless sheep (or so it would appear from many of these posts) doesn't mean I'm not entitled to post my opinion as well.

Localization studios are more often then not 3rd party and are contracted by the publisher on a per-game basis. While I'm disapointed in NCsoft the message I want to convey here is "don't use these people again".

Also, you know, F2P

 

Oh, I just thought since it was their game it wouldn't count as censorship. The same way you wouldn't accuse an author of censoring a book he had written if he decided to change some things about it.

Context is important, the material is being changed by people who did not create the game, and deciding for an entire audiance that the material is "problematic" based on their own morality, under the pretense of "Women might find this offensive".

Edited by MidBoss

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Oh, I just thought since it was their game it wouldn't count as censorship. The same way you wouldn't accuse an author of censoring a book he had written if he decided to change some things about it.

 

Please reference 

 

https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/142278-blade-and-soul-is-being-censored-despite-them-previously-saying-otherwise/?p=1442352

 

Your point if it can be called such has already been addressed, They are not the author, this is more like the publicist handing it off to a ghost writer for touchups after you hand them the final print, so they can make sure it is PC enough for mainstream, which is censorship, Again stop referencing NC Soft as an "individual" it isnt, it is a huge company filled with people, the writers are not the "authors" thus by definition they are censoring the authors original work.

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[...] under the pretense of "Women might find this offensive".

But they did find it offensive. It's not a pretense if that's what actually happened.

Come on, really? You guys don't care what we think anyway. I know that. You know that. Don't pretend this is about anything other than what YOU personally feel is something not worth getting offended about. Speak for yourselves.

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Rahaya   

But they did find it offensive. It's not a pretense if that's what actually happened.

Come on, really? You guys don't care what we think anyway. I know that. You know that. Don't pretend this is about anything other than what YOU personally feel is something not worth getting offended about. Speak for yourselves.

As a woman, I did not find it offensive. Take your own advice.

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As a woman, I did not find it offensive. Take your own advice.

Yes, and that was already noted.

Gender is not one monolithic group. Shock and awe.

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Familiar   

Please reference 

 

https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/142278-blade-and-soul-is-being-censored-despite-them-previously-saying-otherwise/?p=1442352

 

Your point if it can be called such has already been addressed, They are not the author, this is more like the publicist handing it off to a ghost writer for touchups after you hand them the final print, so they can make sure it is PC enough for mainstream, which is censorship, Again stop referencing NC Soft as an "individual" it isnt, it is a huge company filled with people, the writers are not the "authors" thus by definition they are censoring the authors original work.

I read your post. Doesn't make sense. They ARE the same company. Unlike in your example where you would be able to forcibly change someone else's posts without their permission, none of the Dev teams have that luxury. They all answer to someone, and without that stamp of approval none of these changes would've made it to live. You do understand that right? That that is how it works?

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Mage   

Oh, I see...so you can't play the game now? Because that quest changed?

 

 

Hmmmm, yeah, that makes all kinds of sense bud. You're TOTALLY not blowing small changes (semantically speaking of course) out of proportion.

 

Well, like he said, that quest is gone and replaced. I mean, we literately can't play that quest.

 

 

Fun fact:

There are 94 unique posters in this entire thread. Around 50% of the posts come from the same 10 posters (myself included).

Just to give yourselves a sense of the actual scale here. As I said before - this thread is indicative of nothing, other than that a really loud minority really likes to complain about things like this.

I wish you guys luck on your little campaign, but I would be lying to say that I expected anything to come of it. Loud and vocal minorities are not enough to cause change in a heavily commercial enterprise like this. The people up top only care about statistics and figures, not rhetoric and bluster.

 

You need to take into account the 43 likes the OP got. They aren't vocal, but they have expressed their dislike of this censorship. Is a tiny amount of people, but if all of them have Master Packs, and then decided to get a refund NCWest would be out $5,000+. Now, if they uncensored it and the people who are for the censor got their Master Pack refunded the loss would only be around $1300. I gathered that from Naunet's post that has 11 likes. Pissing off those 11 people instead of the 43 would earn them more money. 

 

That is simply a what if scenario, (and would most likely never happen) but it is easy to see what benefits the company more. Hell, even if there became a huge negative outcry because the quest was left in, the company would make more money. The sites that covered the story would actually be giving out free advertisement. Most people wouldn't care about the fact that it was left in or taken out, so if somebody like that saw the story the would simply only become more aware of the game. Which in turn, might create a potential player. Such a strategy worked for Rockstar. Rockstar actually paid money for bad press. 

Edited by Mage

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Rahaya   

Yes, and that was already noted.

Gender is not one monolithic group. Shock and awe.

Then do stop using 'we' and 'they,' if that is not too much trouble. It's a common tactic to artificially give your opinion more weight where there is none, and is typical soap-boxing. You represent no one but yourself, as you acknowledge, so it should be a simple matter to write as if that is indeed the case. Thank you.

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I read your post. Doesn't make sense. They ARE the same company. Unlike in your example where you would be able to forcibly change someone else's posts without their permission, none of the Dev teams have that luxury. They all answer to someone, and without that stamp of approval none of these changes would've made it to live. You do understand that right? That that is how it works?

 

And yet they took the original version of the text already translated from the KR team and then went to town on it because they could, They do not have the original writers stamp of approval, they just have guidelines of what they are and are not allowed to change, these are two entirely different criteria. But Alas, nothing i say will get through this point to you as you are unwilling to consider a position other then your own. 

 

But they did find it offensive. It's not a pretense if that's what actually happened.

Come on, really? You guys don't care what we think anyway. I know that. You know that. Don't pretend this is about anything other than what YOU personally feel is something not worth getting offended about. Speak for yourselves.

 

Then shouldnt you yourself speak for yourself rather then referencing "Women" as They, I am also a woman who didnt find it offensive, and didnt take insult or issue with it, i think it would be far more correct and apt to say " I took offense to it, and i happen to be a woman" or something to this effect, as one look at the previous thread will say the Majority of individuals at least claiming to be female either Do not care, or Do Care. Very few fall into the camp of actually considering it offensive and gross, Very few in my eyes being <5 Individuals.

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You need to take into account the 43 like the OP got. They aren't vocal, but they have expressed their dislike of this censorship. Is a tiny amount of people, but if all of them have Master Packs, and then decided to get a refund NCWest would be out $5,000+. Now, if they uncensored it and the people who are for the censor got their Master Pack refunded the loss would only be around $1300. I gathered that from Naunet's post that has 11 likes. Pissing off those 11 people instead of the 43 would earn them more money. 

 

That is simply a what if scenario, (and would most likely never happen) but it is easy to see what benefits the company more. Hell, even if there became a huge negative outcry because the quest was left in, the company would make more money. The sites that covered the story would actually be giving out free advertisement. Most people wouldn't care about the fact that it was left in or taken out, so if somebody like that saw the story the would simply only become more aware of the game. Which in turn, might create a potential player. Such a strategy worked for Rockstar. Rockstar actually paid money for bad press.

*headdesk*

You cannot be serious. The forums aren't even the tiniest fraction of the player base for ANY game. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of potential players will never touch the forums. Not ONCE.

I once did a poll on the Au Ra for FFXIV thinking that the negative feedback on forums and comment threads was somehow indicative of a greater trend. I WAS SO, SO WRONG. The majority of players loved the Au Ra. Most of them never say a thing. They don't care to go the forums to let people know that they're fine with the way things are going.

Again, I'm telling you NOT to use the forums to be indicative of anything. Likes or posts or what-have-you. They mean nothing. In the greater scheme of things, you guys are just a drop in the bucket. $5000 isn't even in the realm of 'noticeable' for a company that plans to obtain revenue in the millions on a monthly basis.  

 

Then do stop using 'we' and 'they,' if that is not too much trouble. It's a common tactic to artificially give your opinion more weight where there is none, and is typical soap-boxing. You represent no one but yourself, as you acknowledge, so it should be a simple matter to write as if that is indeed the case. Thank you.

The "they" I spoke of is the writing team that unanimously voted to change the quest.

When I say "we" I mean "those of us who disagree with the outcry in this thread", so yes, I am only speaking for people whom I SHOULD be speaking for, thank you very much. Let's face it - they'd be decrying your opinion too if you were on the opposite side of any issue with the same level of idiotic fervor. It's all the same nonsense.

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MidBoss   

But they did find it offensive. It's not a pretense if that's what actually happened.

Come on, really? You guys don't care what we think anyway. I know that. You know that. Don't pretend this is about anything other than what YOU personally feel is something not worth getting offended about. Speak for yourselves.

Who's "They"? You mean you?

 

Also, so what if you find it offensive? Why can't games offend people? The NPC TRICKS you into helping him with this scheme, you certainly aren’t supposed to LIKE the guy.

Why can't an M rated game cause a player some discomfort?

 

I found the whole thing uncomfortable, both the woman’s customs and the man's actions that led to that conclusion, but I would never EVER demand or want it to be changed.

 

I took it as a commentary about how strict adherence to outdated customs will not always be a positive thing.

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Who's "They"? You mean you?

 

Also, so what if you find it offensive? Why can't games offend people? The NPC TRICKS you into helping him with this scheme, you certainly aren’t supposed to LIKE the guy.

Why can't an M rated game cause a player some discomfort?

 

I found the whole thing uncomfortable, both the woman’s customs and the man's actions that led to that conclusion, but I would never EVER demand or want it to be changed.

 

I took it as a commentary about how strict adherence to outdated customs will not always be a positive thing.

@Lichtsaule, Zofi, Lurkios, foxlight713

As has been mentioned prior, the task assigned to the writing/localization team has never been a direct one-for-one translation of the game, but a localization to ensure that the game content fits the standards and tastes of a Western audience.  One key note in that is the effort to make the game feel safe to all potential players, not just those who aren't on the business end of an offensive joke.  The original EN1 content raised unanimous concerns across a group of ten writers; all of different ages, genders, and walks of life.  It is not at all difficult to imagine there are players out there who would not see that EN1 quest as being funny at all.  Midoriko's reply prior proves that right off the bat.  While obviously some of you find the original content acceptable at face value, others do not and would not, thus we lean to the side of those who would be hurt.

 

Consider the implications of the original quest scenario as well.  In a nearby side-quest in the Lycandi Foothills, the PC encounters a Lycandi woman who has been tricked into slavery.  She is terrified and runs away while the slaver contracts the PC to chase the woman down.  Once the PC finds her, they help her escape to freedom and tell the slaver she was killed, thus taking on further trouble themselves for the sake of helping an innocent.  In this side-quest, the slaver is clearly portrayed as being the villain and the woman a victim of his selfish cruelty.  Helping her is the righteous thing to do.

 

In the original "Ma Ture" sidequest, we're looking at effectively the same scenario.  The NPC wants to force a woman to marry him without any input on her part or any regard for her feelings, with all presented intent being driven by base sexual desire on his part.  No consideration is given to the Lycandi woman character as a person at any point - she's not granted any sort of agency, neither by the NPC or the original outcome of the quest's resolution.  The character is treated as an object and a punishment.  What sense does it make for the PC to help one enslaved woman escape her captor, only to turn around and help enslave a different woman?  The whole scenario with Ma Ture is only amusing if you exclude all context from the situation.  A womanizing philanderer rendered sexually impotent through abuse and then forced into marriage with a woman he doesn't love (but still has sex with anyway) because of his own selfish desires - it's poetic justice, sure, but the content shows no concern for the broader implications of what it's presenting or to the audience that's to absorb the information.

 

Humor is, of course, completely subjective.  If some people prefer the original content, it's still freely available in the original KO and presumably the fan-patched version of the Chinese client.  But in the NA version of the game, it's another case altogether.  With the opportunity available to present a different story that doesn't stand to hurt people and instead deliver a more positive message that also ties into the lore better, why wouldn't that chance be taken?

Emphasis mine. Edited by Zyrusticae

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Familiar   

Who's "They"? You mean you?

 

Also, so what if you find it offensive? Why can't games offend people? The NPC TRICKS you into helping him with this scheme, you certainly aren’t supposed to LIKE the guy.

Why can't an M rated game cause a player some discomfort?

 

I found the whole thing uncomfortable, both the woman’s customs and the man's actions that led to that conclusion, but I would never EVER demand or want it to be changed.

 

I took it as a commentary about how strict adherence to outdated customs will not always be a positive thing.

"They" as in the people who changed it.

 

Dude, just calm down ok? Just take a few deep breaths, and then continue posting. There's no need for you to be so upset right now. We're all just talking. 

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Mage   

*headdesk*

You cannot be serious. The forums aren't even the tiniest fraction of the player base for ANY game. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of potential players will never touch the forums. Not ONCE.

I once did a poll on the Au Ra for FFXIV thinking that the negative feedback on forums and comment threads was somehow indicative of a greater trend. I WAS SO, SO WRONG. The majority of players loved the Au Ra. Most of them never say a thing. They don't care to go the forums to let people know that they're fine with the way things are going.

Again, I'm telling you NOT to use the forums to be indicative of anything. Likes or posts or what-have-you. They mean nothing. In the greater scheme of things, you guys are just a drop in the bucket. $5000 isn't even in the realm of 'noticeable' for a company that plans to obtain revenue in the millions on a monthly basis.  

 

The "they" I spoke of is the writing team that unanimously voted to change the quest.

When I say "we" I mean "those of us who disagree with the outcry in this thread", so yes, I am only speaking for people whom I SHOULD be speaking for, thank you very much. Let's face it - they'd be decrying your opinion too if you were on the opposite side of any issue with the same level of idiotic fervor. It's all the same nonsense.

 

Come on now. I did say that it would most likely never happen and at least implied that both parties are a very tiny minority. But more money is more money. Why pass up a potential 5k? Yeah, the average player won't care either way. so the company doesn't have to worry about them. So, just taking into account the two minorities, the side against the censorship would grant them more money. 

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