UnDeAdKiTtY

Costume inventory in Taiwan is free, Why not us?

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Ikasu   

TL;DR

 

While the premium membership offers other benefits, those benefits are not that much different than what other memberships offer. If I do decide to play this game for more than a month, I'll pay subscription to level. But that's the only premium thing I'm touching. Why would I pay for anything cosmetic when its going to be locked out? I sure as hell won't have room in my normal inventory.

So that means if I want to spend as much as I spent on Tera, now only through subscription, that's 60 months. 5 years. 5 years for this company to receive the money I spent 4 months in a different game, all because they decided to lock the cosmetics wardrobe, because like I said, those $900 I spent on Tera was for aesthetics.

 

I don't really understand why it has to be argued. You want my money? Well don't limit how much I can spend.

 

 

I already talked about the whole "costumes don't affect game play" and how it still doesn't justify the subscription based fee, so I'm not going to repeat myself. Instead, here's some of my actual spending history.

I spent well over $600 on Tera over 2 months. And that's just on cosmetic items. I also paid for subscription. I spent maybe 4 months on Tera in total, and of course after I got the costumes I wanted on my main, the spending dropped a little. But I still had my alts to dress, so let's say those last 2 months I spent $300. So over the course of 4 months, I spent $900. Now, Tera does not have a wardrobe feature like BnS, and the quest rewards did not give as many costumes as this game does (it wasn't as significant either, however they were still permanent costumes). But the reason I could spend $900 on cosmetics was because I had enough space without having to purchase extra inventory slots. Why? Because first, Tera offered locked inventory slots for in-game gold, and second, those slots offered were enough for me to hold my VM gear ingredients (the end game gear), whatever potions and buffs (charms, eclipse, cooldown, hp, hp over time, mp, mp over time, food buffs, scroll buffs, etc.), ingredients for crafting those potions and buffs, drops from the PvP alliance zone... and my costumes. Plus accessories. The only reason I bought one more bank space was because I'm a neat freak and had to organize my inventory a certain way.

League is also a game I've spent well over $500 on. Also for cosmetic purposes; skins. On main champions I make a point to have every single one of their skins, whether I like them or not. Just to fulfill that satisfaction of having them.

The only reason I dropped so much on both games is because I knew that if I pay this one-time fee, the feature would be mine forever. And unless the game closed down, there was nothing stopping me from using that item whenever I wanted. That means even if I quit for a while, and came back three months later, I would still have access to well, everything I paid for.

But what this subscription based wardrobe does is lock me out from what I already paid for, just because I am not actively playing the game. I want my character to look pretty, so I paid a price for it; but suddenly, I'm going to be punished for not paying for something that isn't worth it if I'm not playing often enough.

It's like if Walmart or Superstore only offered tiny grocery bags, and if you wanted anything bigger, you had to pay a continuous fee. Am I still going to go to either of those stores if I need/want something? Probably, but am I going to spend more than the absolute bare minimum? Nope. I don't want to deal with ten thousand tiny bags just because the store wouldn't give them for free, and tried to force me into paying for something every other store offers for free. In a competitive business environment, unless you can offer more benefits than any other business to cover for that extra fee costumers have to pay, you're not going to succeed. Do you know what would happen if those stores said that now you had to pay $15 a month for large sized grocery bags? People would not go, people would buy the minimum, people would find alternatives; but people would not pay the fee. Especially when the next door major chain store offers the same thing for free. The situation we have is even worse, because in real life you could use those grocery bags for something else. But this? It remains in it's strict environment and we cannot do anything else with it or about it.

While the premium membership offers other benefits, those benefits are not that much different than what other memberships offer. If I do decide to play this game for more than a month, I'll pay subscription to level. But that's the only premium thing I'm touching. Why would I pay for anything cosmetic when its going to be locked out? I sure as hell won't have room in my normal inventory.

So that means if I want to spend as much as I spent on Tera, now only through subscription, that's 60 months. 5 years. 5 years for this company to receive the money I spent 4 months in a different game, all because they decided to lock the cosmetics wardrobe, because like I said, those $900 I spent on Tera was for aesthetics.

Now, out of the 2, 3 thousand closed beta testers, is my case unique? Nah. Someone else in this post has already said they won't spend that money because they're limited. Sure, we may be a small group of players, but that small group of players spend more than your casual player by a great deal. Those losses add up fast.

I don't really understand why it has to be argued. You want my money? Well don't limit how much I can spend.

Edited by Ikasu

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Naunet   

That's a fair assessment. Outfits are not necessary to enjoy the gameplay--any beyond the six faction ones are just fluff.

 

This is simply not true. Unless you're going to try and tell me that you'd be okay just playing BnS equipped in nothing but a bland, grey box? A HUGE part of MMOs is the cosmetic side - customizing how you look. Personally I'm not even interested in the faction stuff, outside of putting them on for pretty screenshots; it's the other costumes that really excite me. But back to the point - why do you think wardrobe systems in MMOs are so wildly popular? Because how our character looks is critical to our enjoyment of the game. That's why we have character customization in the first place.

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Killian   

The only reason I dropped so much on both games is because I knew that if I pay this one-time fee, the feature would be mine forever. And unless the game closed down, there was nothing stopping me from using that item whenever I wanted. That means even if I quit for a while, and came back three months later, I would still have access to well, everything I paid for.

I don't really understand why it has to be argued. You want my money? Well don't limit how much I can spend.

 

I agree with everything you said, but especially these two lines.

I love supporting the games that I play, and I have no problem doing so and always have. But I always knew that if I was busy or maybe needed a break from any of those games, what I had bought would be there waiting for me when I came back. I've never played a game that forced you to subscribe just to buy more from said game, unless it flat out was already a sub based game.

Just like you said about TERA, inventory space is bought with in-game currency and then you can make a one time purchase for extra bank tabs (if you weren't already a founder which was given account wide max tabs). I only have about 7 free inventory slots out of max slots because I have so many costumes that overflow into the bank, and I'd do that with B&S as well so long as it's not going to be impossible to play the game with or put behind a wall.

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NCsoft is probably expecting the white knights to be whale-y enough to keep this version of the game afloat despite antagonizing everyone else.

 

On a more serious note, the reason they don't answer is because it's only 6 pages. I've seen forum threads in other games were no developer answers until the page count has gone past the 20s. Sometimes not even then. Forum-dwellers are actually a minority of the game's population. Most players don't bother with the forums more than to read the patch notes.

Edited by Spiderbot

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Cherish   

People keep going on about NO WARDROBE for non Premium players.  That simply is not true.  You have a second tab in your bank that can be upgraded VERY CHEAPLY that will hold your outfits.  Yes I agree that locking people out of the wardrobe is a bad business move because it means people who would have spent time hunting to get all outfits won't be able to complete all game play. BUT the alternative is that people who dont want to sub into the game pay to open up their wardrobe.  As the wardrobe is a money maker for NCsoft I understand why they dont want to add all that storage space to their servers for non paying customers. 

 

People say that unlocking the wardrobe should be a ONE time purchase and open up the complete wardrobe, sorry I dont agree.  NCsoft have stated that to stop the game going P2W they had to come up with other means of making money and wardrobe storage was one of them.  I dont know how many slots there are in the wardrobe but I would think that going on what I pay for storage in other games $5 for 10-15 slots open is fair.  For those players who do not ever want to spend real money on the game these items should be able to be bought and sold by players who do spend money.  Being charged for storage is now a very common thing on every game I play.

 

There is no point looking at other business models and comparing NCsoft's to it because those other countries probably have stuff we wouldnt want.

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questir   

I agree...the wardrobe is such a core feature to have like having a bank that i don't understand why this is a premium only thing

Edited by questir

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There is no point looking at other business models and comparing NCsoft's to it because those other countries probably have stuff we wouldnt want.

 

Example: Say we make Wardrobe free. Now premium gives unlimited stamina and a major attack boost.

 

In the end, by keeping wardrobe premium, we can avoid a rather....dark path.

 

I would much rather have maximum cosmetics require payment than what would happen without it.

I have already seen how far that path can go elsewhere. It was terrifying.

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Brogg   

I am not intending to spend money on outfits. (That doesn't mean I won't, if just means I don't intend to.)  On the other hand, if nothing changes, I can get about 1 outfit every week using hongmoon coins.  (Yes that is correct, you get enough hongmoon coins on average to buy one of the more expensive outfits every week.)  Now I'll be buying and maintaining premium just to store those outfits, plus any other ones I pick up in the game.  I doubt very much I'll be the only one buying outfits using hongmoon coins.  So if the wardrobe was free, I would have no reason to ever spend any money in this game, and NCSoft would lose a heck of a lot of money this way.  As it is now they'll at least be getting my premium payment every month.

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Teisho   

What I'd like to understand is why the hell everyone here thinks Wardrobe has to be either locked behind premium or free for everyone?

 

There are plenty of ways NCSoft can go about handling this, one of which I've already stated many times like a broken record.

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Naunet   

Example: Say we make Wardrobe free. Now premium gives unlimited stamina and a major attack boost.

 

In the end, by keeping wardrobe premium, we can avoid a rather....dark path.

 

I would much rather have maximum cosmetics require payment than what would happen without it.

I have already seen how far that path can go elsewhere. It was terrifying.

 

You're making up irrational endpoints to try and justify an argument, but there is no logic in your assertion. NCSoft's claim that they need to restrict the wardrobe to premium to avoid P2W is absurd - especially considering 1) plenty of other f2p mmos manage to both have wardrobe systems fully available and not be P2W, and 2) (most importantly) other versions of BnS that have the free wardrobe are not all P2W!

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You're making up irrational endpoints to try and justify an argument, but there is no logic in your assertion. NCSoft's claim that they need to restrict the wardrobe to premium to avoid P2W is absurd - especially considering 1) plenty of other f2p mmos manage to both have wardrobe systems fully available and not be P2W, and 2) (most importantly) other versions of BnS that have the free wardrobe are not all P2W!

 

Alright, calm down.

 

Lets say Wardrobe is to become free.

 

Now replace it with something of equal value and desire.

Gotta make money somewhere, you know?

Especially since we have hongmoon coins.

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Naunet   

Alright, calm down.

 

Lets say Wardrobe is to become free.

 

Now replace it with something of equal value and desire.

Gotta make money somewhere, you know?

Especially since we have hongmoon coins.

 

I'd recommend NCSoft look at the other games they publish that manage to have both a freely available wardrobe system and be f2p (well, b2p in GW2's case), the other versions of BnS that manage to do so, as well as other MMOs that do the same - such as Rift. It is clearly possible. They could provide daily log-in rewards for patrons like Rift, expand on bonuses, maybe give some small buffs to crafting, gold earned, or whatever. Heck, a stipend of keys? I dunno. The point is, they've done it before; they can do it again.

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Ikasu   
TL;DR
 
I don't know why some people are so obsessed with the wardrobe feature HAVING to be SUBSCRIPTION-based. I don't think it's realistic to think we'll get it for free. Sure free is nice, but I don't think I remember any of the people who wanted the subscription-based fee changed express immense hatred towards a one-time fee.
 
How about, have the option to unlock it with a one-time purchase in store. But still include it in the subscription.
This means those who don't want subscription can pay the one-time fee. Those who want the subscription can pay the subscription and have the wardrobe as a nice bonus. Those who want to keep the wardrobe after their subscription has ended (because had they not purchased the one-time unlock beforehand it would lock when their subscription ends) and are no longer willing to pay the subscription, can pay the one-time price.
 
There. As long as the one-time fee (dependent on if per character or account wide) isn't something ridiculous, I think it's an alright compromise.

 

 

 
Story time!
 
Let's say you live in a little house left to you by your parents. It's not the best living space in the world, but it's livable. Although since you own it you don't have to pay any rent, you still have to pay for service fees and stuff, of course.
 
One day this super rich corportation decides to build an amazing, beautiful glass condominium, with a mall on the first floor, with all of the top fashion industries as a part of that mall. Rent is a monthly basis but it's cheap, and all of the services you originally had to pay for are included in that rent.
 
So you decide to move in, and it's just freaking awesome. Free drinks, parties every weekend, free food, free internet, tons of all that good stuff. The tenants even get free, top-notch clothes that the malls didn't sell in the season. Awesome, right? But you decide you don't want to look the same as everyone else, so you buy things from the mall every now and then. It's not like there's anything else to spend money on, since every thing else is covered by your rent.
 
So your tiny closet fills up fast, but it's not only just you. It's everyone. These are some of the best clothes in the world, so you can't just leave them lying around anywhere. So people make a complaint, and voila, the corporation adds a huge wardrobe in every room that people can store their clothes in. Now everyone's happy again.
 
Time passes and you decide that you've had your fair share of fun.  The same parties and activities every week are now boring, and you want to go back to your own house, so you stop paying rent. At the end of that month, you go to pack your bags. Unfortunately your bag isn't huge, so you can't fit everything; therefore you have to be picky about which clothes you pick. You go through the closet, pick your best outfits, a mix of paid for and not, and move towards the new wardrobe to fill your bags.
 
As soon as you're about to open the wardrobe your room door gets knocked down and sixteen men in black suits surround you, all of them pointing a gun. You think, 'What the *cricket*?' and they all scream "DON'T TOUCH THAT !@#$ING WARDROBE DOOR!!!!!"
 
Turns out you can't touch the wardrobe if you don't pay rent.
 
Please tell me how many of you would say, "Oh okay, I mean that's how it is so I'm outta here."
 
What I would do is poke the nearest guy in the eyeball and say, "That's MY !@#$ing property in there."
 
Now, the situation is different here because we actually have knowledge about the wardrobe being untouchable if we don't pay rent. But if I decided to move in knowing that, what would that result in? I wouldn't buy as many clothes anymore.
 
What does that mean for this corporation?
 
This corporation makes money in two ways; rent and clothes. Customers don't have anything else to buy other than clothes if they pay rent, since everything else is paid for. But what did I say I'd do if I moved in knowing the wardrobe was no longer touchable once I stopped paying rent? 
 
I said that I wouldn't buy as many clothes, if any. Sure, everyone gets the same clothes as I do, but they're still top-notch designer clothes, and there are so many of them given to tenants that there's enough variety. Not to mention, I NEED certain clothes to get into certain parties and participate in special activities. The free clothes I get already fill up both my closet and part of the wardrobe, so why would I buy more knowing I can't keep many of them? By inputing this 'wardrobe rule', the corporation has put itself on a crutch, and seriously hurt one of its own income sources.
 
EDIT; Thanks to Brogg for pointing this out.
 

Yes, you can take the clothes out of the wardrobe. But how many can you actually take home?

You need to keep certain costumes in order to play the game. You also need inventory space for other game-related items.

In other words, clothes aren't a priority to live. That means without a wardrobe, I need to divide my space between these two.

I think a key point not included in the story (aside from your fact) is that the costumes given in-game are rewards. They were given to me because I managed to achieve whatever the game requested at the time.

So, instead of having free clothes thrown at the tenants, and instead, you could earn them through small errands or jobs (aside from your "main job" where you'd earn actual $$$), that means for doing some job (quest), I'm getting paid (reward).

If the story changed like that, that means I'm having to pick between the rewards (reward costumes) I got through one thing (questing), and the things I bought (item mall costumes) which I got by doing something else (earning real $$$).

I did one thing, to get one thing, fairly. But in order to do both things, I need to pay a fee.

Hopefully that makes things a bit more clearer (or brings the two situations together).

 
Telling players who are against this to "deal with it" and any form of it is an atrocious way to try (if you can even count that as trying) and deal with the problem at hand. If you're really concerned about NCsoft as a company and their revenue you wouldn't just jump at the first basic idea that appears to maybe have a chance at making revenue. You need to take more things into account than just that.
 
I don't know why some people are so obsessed with the wardrobe feature HAVING to be SUBSCRIPTION-based. I don't think it's realistic to think we'll get it for free. Sure free is nice, but I don't think I remember any of the people who wanted the subscription-based fee changed express immense hatred towards a one-time fee.
 
How about, have the option to unlock it with a one-time purchase in store. But still include it in the subscription.
This means those who don't want subscription can pay the one-time fee. Those who want the subscription can pay the subscription and have the wardrobe as a nice bonus. Those who want to keep the wardrobe after their subscription has ended (because had they not purchased the one-time unlock beforehand it would lock when their subscription ends) and are no longer willing to pay the subscription, can pay the one-time price.
 
There. As long as the one-time fee (dependent on if per character or account wide) isn't something ridiculous, I think it's an alright compromise.
 
To those that are saying subscription is not worth it without wardrobe;
There are other ways to make a monthly subscription worth it without it including the wardrobe, and not making the game P2W.
 

You will miss as much as 30% cost reduction on your breakthru, which is a lot consider later breakthrus cost upward 24g-50g.

You will also miss as much as 30% extra gold from dailies which can add up really fast.

You will also miss up to 150% gold multiplier from monsters.

You miss up to 2 spins, which can mean an extra costume, hongmoon coins or other really good items.

 

If that's not enough for you, consider this. Premium membership is for convenience. That means if you're not willing to pay for it, you're willing to ignore the convenience it offers. Already, you're more active than a good majority of the player base. People are lazy. This is fact. Once you level 6 characters to cap and gear all of them, how willing are you to repeat the same process again, for the 7th time? Can you say for sure you can do it with the same enthusiasm when you first started your main? Can you say for certain that others that didn't pay a subscription fee for the same reasons as you will? It doesn't even have to be the 7th character. Repeated content gets boring over time, and people lose interest. Why else would game companies keep releasing new content? If people could just repeat things and experience the same amount of interest and enjoyment as if it was their first time each and every time, they wouldn't have to release anything new.

 

Aside from that, the majority of the players play casually. They don't have/want to invest as much time (or money for that matter). If that's the case, and they have a few bucks to drop, they will pay for the membership. Maybe not for as long as "hardcore loyal" players, but they will pay. And like I said, these players make up the majority of the player base. I have little hesitation when I say this is pretty much for any and every MMORPG game. Having three people pay the subscription once a month while trying the game out makes the company more money than one dedicated member paying for subscription for three months. And the first number of players will always, always be larger than the second.

Those who don't play casually and are very dedicated to the game will also pay for membership, whether they care about aesthetics or not. Because those investing the most hours into the game will benefit the most from the membership benefits. If they care about aesthetics? They'll be willing to pay even more. As long as they can reap those aesthetic benefits without being limited, like the condominium example above.

 

Remember, not included in the above quote about benefits are the exp boosts and reduced teleport cool downs. And since this is closed beta, the rates could change when the game goes live; who knows. They could also add more things that don't make the game P2W. While you could argue the wardrobe could be one of them, I've tried to explain multiple times as to why logically it shouldn't be. And no one's argument has been able to convince me otherwise. If there's no real argument as to why it shouldn't be changed, it should be changed, considering I think I, and everyone for this idea, have provided enough reason for it.

Edited by Ikasu

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I too think having the wardrobe "deposit" as premium only is backwards. The wardrobe is an inventory. It's like making access to the bank premium only. 15 dollars a month for inventory is ridiculous. It's a necessity, not a luxury. Charging a one time fee to unlock access to it is reasonable, but expecting people to pay every month for it is absurd. 

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Naunet   

Thanks for proving how terrible internet analogies are, Ikasu.

 

We're not renting a condo. We're playing a video game. We're not going back to some lesser video game that is completely different from the game premium players get if we unsub. The outfits are not magically bestowed upon us when we start "renting the fancy condo". Basically everything that could be wrong about your analogy is wrong.

 

Just stick to talking about the actual game. It's the only way to have a productive discussion about things on the internet.

 

And if you're not convinced that it's possible for the game to be not-p2w without the wardrobe as premium even though NCSoft has done exactly that in other game versions, and in other mmos they publish, and other devs have managed the same, then... I'm not sure what to tell you.

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I'd recommend NCSoft look at the other games they publish that manage to have both a freely available wardrobe system and be f2p (well, b2p in GW2's case), the other versions of BnS that manage to do so, as well as other MMOs that do the same - such as Rift. It is clearly possible. They could provide daily log-in rewards for patrons like Rift, expand on bonuses, maybe give some small buffs to crafting, gold earned, or whatever. Heck, a stipend of keys? I dunno. The point is, they've done it before; they can do it again.

 

Perhaps you need some backstory on my views.

I moved here from a game that expected players to shovel out $70+ a week for the new power creep.

And that isn't even a fraction of what the whales spent.

 

So when I move here and see $15 a month for something as simple as storing outfits + extras, with the ability to never have to spend money anywhere else?

 

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about what other versions have. I never touched them for that reason. I never wanted to get attached to what wouldn't exist.

 

As for the log in rewards...

Are you suggesting daily dash be the premium locked feature instead?

 

Hm...If I recall, while Taiwan has wardrobe for free, doesn't it have other, worse additions to its premium?

 

One of them required being logged in for a while to even get the full effect?

 

Honestly, I couldn't care either way if we get wardrobe free or not.

 

If it remains premium, I'll only be spending $15 a month for it.

If it becomes free, I'll still be spending $15 a month because I actually enjoy the game.

 

Besides, can't you just bank outfits?

If you have the money for outfits, why don't you have money for premium?

If wardrobe was buy per slot, we would likely spend way more per month than premium asks for.

And if it was buy per slot, what happens when someone runs out of outfits to collect?

A drop in profits. Nothing being earned. What is there to buy?

Keys? Hongmoon coins. Potions? Hongmoon coins. Extras? Hongmoon coins.

 

...huh....don't remember the last time I made a reply like this.

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Brogg   

Here's where your story goes off on a tangent.  In BnS you can touch your wardrobe all you want and you can leave all your clothes in it and come back any time you want to withdraw more stuff.  You simply can't put anything in the wardrobe unless you start to pay rent again.

 

Nice story though.

 

Now as to why I think wardrobe access should stay part of premium.  I can get every outfit in this game for free.  I'll likely be using hongmoon coins to buy an outfit each week, four outfits a month.  If they weren't free, I don't think I would buy as many as that.  Now since all of those outfits are going to be free anyway, I don't have any problem paying a monthly fee for room to store them.  Because, like me, anyone can get the oufits for free, why not spend the money you were intending to spend on outfits on Premium Membership instead, which gives you a hold bunch more than just the wardrobe.

 

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Naunet   

Perhaps you need some backstory on my views.

I moved here from a game that expected players to shovel out $70+ a week for the new power creep.

And that isn't even a fraction of what the whales spent.

 

So when I move here and see $15 a month for something as simple as storing outfits + extras, with the ability to never have to spend money anywhere else?

 

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about what other versions have. I never touched them for that reason. I never wanted to get attached to what wouldn't exist.

 

As for the log in rewards...

Are you suggesting daily dash be the premium locked feature instead?

 

Hm...If I recall, while Taiwan has wardrobe for free, doesn't it have other, worse additions to its premium?

 

One of them required being logged in for a while to even get the full effect?

 

Honestly, I couldn't care either way if we get wardrobe free or not.

 

If it remains premium, I'll only be spending $15 a month for it.

If it becomes free, I'll still be spending $15 a month because I actually enjoy the game.

 

Besides, can't you just bank outfits?

If you have the money for outfits, why don't you have money for premium?

If wardrobe was buy per slot, we would likely spend way more per month than premium asks for.

And if it was buy per slot, what happens when someone runs out of outfits to collect?

A drop in profits. Nothing being earned. What is there to buy?

Keys? Hongmoon coins. Potions? Hongmoon coins. Extras? Hongmoon coins.

 

...huh....don't remember the last time I made a reply like this.

 

A few things:

- Just because stinkier crap exists doesn't mean that the other crap isn't stinky too.

- TW is not the only version that has a free wardrobe.

- No I am not suggesting the Daily Dash be a premium-locked feature, that I suppose that would be reasonable. I'm thinking more like the daily and weekly log-in bags you get in Rift as a patron. They have a chance to contain any number of things, from BoA items useful for leveling, to costumes, to currencies, to decor, pets, mounts, etc. The items in these bags aren't exclusive to the bags; they're a nice bonus for subscribing, however.

- Suggesting that people who don't pay the sub don't also enjoy the game is a fallacy.

- No, you can't "just" bank the outfits, as that is limited space and under a great deal of pressure with all of the other things you also need to keep around. It's entirely the reason why the wardrobe is supposed to be attractive.

- I have money for outfits, or I have money for premium. I do not feel it is appropriate to ask me to pay, essentially, $15/month to access the wardrobe and then also charge me for costumes. So, I will do one or the other. And since I actually want costumes, I will not be subscribing. Unfortunately, this also means I will not by NEARLY as many costumes as I likely would if I did have access to the wardrobe.

- There is no way that a one-time fee would end up being more overall than $15/month. That's $15/month you spend for as long as you play the game. It could sum up to hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars. A one-time fee is done and gone, no accumulation over time.

- Running out of outfits to purchase does not affect their income compared to premium. There are other reasons to subscribe - you yourself admitted that the wardrobe has no bearing on your own subscription. If someone runs out of outfits to buy, then they run out of outfits to buy. That's it.

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A few things:

- Just because stinkier crap exists doesn't mean that the other crap isn't stinky too.

- TW is not the only version that has a free wardrobe.

- No I am not suggesting the Daily Dash be a premium-locked feature, that I suppose that would be reasonable. I'm thinking more like the daily and weekly log-in bags you get in Rift as a patron. They have a chance to contain any number of things, from BoA items useful for leveling, to costumes, to currencies, to decor, pets, mounts, etc. The items in these bags aren't exclusive to the bags; they're a nice bonus for subscribing, however.

- Suggesting that people who don't pay the sub don't also enjoy the game is a fallacy.

- No, you can't "just" bank the outfits, as that is limited space and under a great deal of pressure with all of the other things you also need to keep around. It's entirely the reason why the wardrobe is supposed to be attractive.

- I have money for outfits, or I have money for premium. I do not feel it is appropriate to ask me to pay, essentially, $15/month to access the wardrobe and then also charge me for costumes. So, I will do one or the other. And since I actually want costumes, I will not be subscribing. Unfortunately, this also means I will not by NEARLY as many costumes as I likely would if I did have access to the wardrobe.

- There is no way that a one-time fee would end up being more overall than $15/month. That's $15/month you spend for as long as you play the game. It could sum up to hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars. A one-time fee is done and gone, no accumulation over time.

- Running out of outfits to purchase does not affect their income compared to premium. There are other reasons to subscribe - you yourself admitted that the wardrobe has no bearing on your own subscription. If someone runs out of outfits to buy, then they run out of outfits to buy. That's it.

 

How about I get straight to the point:

- compared to this, what I came from was mutated cancer. How about we leave it at that?

- I know right? And look at those different premium services and cash shops. Boy, you must love those weapons at the CN version. Sure worth keeping wardrobe free.

- Oh, CN does that I think. But they have other means of getting money so...

- Allow me to reword it to "Support the game". Is that better? Do you want a cookie?

-Never once stored anything else, don't see the problem. Unless you intentionally hoard outfits both from ingame and the store, you should not have an issue out of your control.

-Oh, you seem to not understand the simple, single solution. Don't buy outfits with Ncoin. Ever. Just buy premium and use hongmoon coins. I know I will.

-Based on what exists in the game, I would expect dragon trade pouches would be used to unlock slots. I know how much people love buying those.

Don't pretend it wouldn't be per slot either. A one time free for the entire wardrobe? What a waste of cash potential.

-Yes, except heres the thing. I'm spending money on premium not for wardrobe, not for the bonuses, but because I want to support a game I enjoy.

The wardrobe storage is an afterthought. A bonus. An extra. I know I don't need it.

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Brogg   

- I have money for outfits, or I have money for premium. I do not feel it is appropriate to ask me to pay, essentially, $15/month to access the wardrobe and then also charge me for costumes. So, I will do one or the other. And since I actually want costumes, I will not be subscribing. Unfortunately, this also means I will not by NEARLY as many costumes as I likely would if I did have access to the wardrobe.

 

Seriously if you only have the $15 and have to decide whether to use it on a costume or premium, buy the premium.  Use the hongmoon coins you get to buy the costumes.  With the extra spins you get from premium, you get on average enough hongmoon coins to buy a costume every week.  Obviously this would be a better use of your $15 since it gives you more costumes and a wardrobe to store them in.  At least that the way I see it, and what I'll be doing.

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Seriously if you only have the $15 and have to decide whether to use it on a costume or premium, buy the premium.  Use the hongmoon coins you get to buy the costumes.  With the extra spins you get from premium, you get on average enough hongmoon coins to buy a costume every week.  Obviously this would be a better use of your $15 since it gives you more costumes and a wardrobe to store them in.  At least that the way I see it, and what I'll be doing.

 

Honestly, I just figured that to be the normal thing to do.

 

Saves the most money, provides a constant source of income for NCsoft.

 

And if no outfit you want arrives in the shop rotation, just hoard hongmoon coins for later.

 

I've made enough hongmoon coins in the CBTs alone to buy about 2-3 outfits.

...spent them on faster progression of characters, but still.

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Ikasu   
 

Thanks for proving how terrible internet analogies are, Ikasu.

 

We're not renting a condo. We're playing a video game. We're not going back to some lesser video game that is completely different from the game premium players get if we unsub. The outfits are not magically bestowed upon us when we start "renting the fancy condo". Basically everything that could be wrong about your analogy is wrong.

 

Just stick to talking about the actual game. It's the only way to have a productive discussion about things on the internet.

 

And if you're not convinced that it's possible for the game to be not-p2w without the wardrobe as premium even though NCSoft has done exactly that in other game versions, and in other mmos they publish, and other devs have managed the same, then... I'm not sure what to tell you.

I'm... not sure you know how analogies work, or you might have failed to connect a few things. Here are the connections for you.

 

Living your life is the game.

The parent's house represents players that don't pay for the membership.

The service fees and living expenses they have to pay for are the items in the shop that are not included in the membership.

The fancy condominium is the premium membership.

The free drinks and parties are the other benefits that are not our main focus point.

The rent is the membership fee.

The clothes the tenants receive for free are the costumes players receive in-game for free.

The closet is the in-game inventory.

The wardrobe is well... the wardrobe.

The clothes you buy are the costumes you'd buy.

 

There are many ways to engage in a proper discussion. If you cannot convince the other party using one set of resources, why restrict yourself to only that set? Analogies are a tool you can use. What I tried to do was enable people to walk through a situation in their heads (relatively), compared to a value that they have experience with in real life, as opposed to a game. My first two posts were with games. Clearly, the concepts were not accepted by everyone so I tried approaching them with a different method.

 

I think everyone knows that playing a video game does not mean renting a condo. But if that's what I'm trying to say. That's not how an analogy works.

 

I'm not sure how to respond to your hostility. I'm sorry for making you upset.

 

As for the last part of your post, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not a fan of the premium wardrobe.

 

 

Here's where your story goes off on a tangent.  In BnS you can touch your wardrobe all you want and you can leave all your clothes in it and come back any time you want to withdraw more stuff.  You simply can't put anything in the wardrobe unless you start to pay rent again.

 

Nice story though.

 

Now as to why I think wardrobe access should stay part of premium.  I can get every outfit in this game for free.  I'll likely be using hongmoon coins to buy an outfit each week, four outfits a month.  If they weren't free, I don't think I would buy as many as that.  Now since all of those outfits are going to be free anyway, I don't have any problem paying a monthly fee for room to store them.  Because, like me, anyone can get the oufits for free, why not spend the money you were intending to spend on outfits on Premium Membership instead, which gives you a hold bunch more than just the wardrobe.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, that point completely left my mind.

 

Alright, then.

Yes, you can take the clothes out of the wardrobe. But how many can you actually take home?

You need to keep certain costumes in order to play the game. You also need inventory space for other game-related items.

In other words, clothes aren't a priority to live. That means without a wardrobe, I need to divide my space between these two.

I think a key point not included in the story (aside from your fact) is that the costumes given in-game are rewards. They were given to me because I managed to achieve whatever the game requested at the time.

So, instead of having free clothes thrown at the tenants, and instead, you could earn them through small errands or jobs (aside from your "main job" where you'd earn actual $$$), that means for doing some job (quest), I'm getting paid (reward).

If the story changed like that, that means I'm having to pick between the rewards (reward costumes) I got through one thing (questing), and the things I bought (item mall costumes) which I got by doing something else (earning real $$$).

I did one thing, to get one thing, fairly. But in order to do both things, I need to pay a fee.

Hopefully that makes things a bit more clearer (or brings the two situations together).

 

I tried to write it for a chuckle to lighten the mood, but I don't think it worked out too well (made some people angrier)...

 

Yes, it's possible to get every costume for free. The question is, how much time does someone need to dedicate to do that?

As I said in the last part, most of the player base won't invest as much time as you (I think) or I (if I get into the game). I can play this game like a full-time job, and more if I'm into it. That would mean I could get everything for free without having to pay a dollar, yes (excluding wardrobe, but things like inventory space). But just how willing am I to do that? How many others are willing to do that? That's not the normal case.

 

I hate to bring it up again, but Tera's elite status includes all of this (bonus exp, gold, no auction house fee, etc., without the wardrobe feature), an account-wide mount, a world-wide travel map, and a travel atlas that allows you to save up to 5 locations of wherever you want. If BnS could include a tad bit more in the current premium status and do this (they don't have to add all of that);

 

How about, have the option to unlock it with a one-time purchase in store. But still include it in the subscription.

This means those who don't want subscription can pay the one-time fee. Those who want the subscription can pay the subscription and have the wardrobe as a nice bonus. Those who want to keep the wardrobe after their subscription has ended (because had they not purchased the one-time unlock beforehand it would lock when their subscription ends) and are no longer willing to pay the subscription, can pay the one-time price.

I would hope it resolves quite a bit of the issues here.

Edited by Ikasu

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Naunet   

Seriously if you only have the $15 and have to decide whether to use it on a costume or premium, buy the premium.  Use the hongmoon coins you get to buy the costumes.  With the extra spins you get from premium, you get on average enough hongmoon coins to buy a costume every week.  Obviously this would be a better use of your $15 since it gives you more costumes and a wardrobe to store them in.  At least that the way I see it, and what I'll be doing.

 

I have no idea what my Hongmoon income will be. I don't have hours and hours to play this game - especially when I'm also still playing WS - so if getting enough Hongmoon coins to purchase a costume is going to take weeks for a single thing, then it may not be worth it.

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NCsoft is probably expecting the white knights to be whale-y enough to keep this version of the game afloat despite antagonizing everyone else.

 

On a more serious note, the reason they don't answer is because it's only 6 pages. I've seen forum threads in other games were no developer answers until the page count has gone past the 20s. Sometimes not even then. Forum-dwellers are actually a minority of the game's population. Most players don't bother with the forums more than to read the patch notes.

Not really, there's been threads where they hopped in as one of the first few posts, they have commented in various threads, so it would seem they are reading the forums. I'm guessing they just don't want to comment on it as they are still considering things, and won't really say anything till it's all finalized at launch.

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