Rahaya

What did you do to the story? (spoilers)

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Rahaya   

From the Q&A, I am really getting the feeling that the team is overthinking the translation. Things that are dismissed as plotholes to fix are explained in the story narrative itself, leaving the 'fixed' sections a bit out of place with the whole because it's was westernized in a bit of a vacuum. If anyone is interested in what I mean, send me a message.

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They always seem to think westerners are morons ... like changing the story, because we won't get the context ... or using two different VAs for the same character, because we never pay attention enough to catch it ... things like that. :(

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Renn   

How did the legitimate topic on censorship get missed compared to the other crap? Thanks for pointing this out because I definitely didn't have the capability to tell the difference. I would like to point out however, you're translating from a translation. The team "should be" translating straight from the Korean version so these differences may exist because this process may (or may not) have happened in TW when they had this game localized. However, if they managed make a perfect translation with no kinks behind the scene, then I'm behind this all the way. The main story should not have been spoiled like this. This is the actual art behind B&S's storytelling being smudged; this is what we should be protesting about.

 

Edit: This is a problem and a number of other things, apparently removal of Buddhist Swastikas is one of them. Name butchering is another. The name's being changed so drastically hits close to home. I have Spanish syllables in my ordinary names so 99% of the people I meet pronounce both my first and last name incorrectly. I'm not even being statistically illogical. No one has pronounced my name correctly in the US except for Spanish families my parents knew as I grew up. The only person to ever get my name right the first time was and still is the manager at my current job. The change from chi to focus also makes no sense but apparently that's there too. Of course there are also other MAJOR problems but I'm not educated enough to hold any fronts on.

 

Edit on my edit (I forgot to put it in): People reserve the right to see my name for what it's worth and pronounce it wrong every time. I also reserve the right to correct them and ignore them if they choose not to respect my position on how my name should be pronounced. The NPC's literally have no opinion on how their names are pronounced so it shouldn't be a problem. Leave them as they were. Otherwise I have to change my name from Angel to Ahnhel.

Edited by Renn

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Rahaya   

How did the legitimate topic on censorship get missed compared to the other crap? Thanks for pointing this out because I definitely didn't have the capability to tell the difference. I would like to point out however, you're translating from a translation. The team "should be" translating straight from the Korean version so these differences may exist because this process may (or may not) have happened in TW when they had this game localized. However, if they managed make a perfect translation with no kinks behind the scene, then I'm behind this all the way. The main story should not have been spoiled like this. This is the actual art behind B&S's storytelling being smudged; this is what we should be protesting about.

 

Edit: This is a problem and a number of other things, apparently removal of Buddhist Swastikas is one of them. Name butchering is another. The name's being changed so drastically hits close to home. I have Spanish syllables in my ordinary names so 99% of the people I meet pronounce both my first and last name incorrectly. I'm not even being statistically illogical. No one has pronounced my name correctly in the US except for Spanish families my parents knew as I grew up. The only person to ever get my name right the first time was and still is the manager at my current job. The change from chi to focus also makes no sense but apparently that's there too. Of course there are also other MAJOR problems but I'm not educated enough to hold any fronts on.

 

Actually, all three versions Korean, Japanese and Chinese are very, very close. That's why this is so strange and unwanted to me. We have folks on the Dojo doing the translations for the languages and they can tell you that the versions change very little between them. Even the NPC names. For example, I will post what was pointed out about one of the NPC names. Take Cheon Jin Kwon, the Mushin. A Chinese character for Korean "Cheon" can be Qian 千

A Chinese character for Korean "Kwon" can be Quan 拳

A Chinese character for multi-dialect Korean "Gyeon" or "Jin" can be Zhen 甄 or Jin 尽

Hence, 千甄拳 of China server, and 千尽拳 of Taiwan server, are BOTH SPOT ON translation of Cheon Jin-Kwon. 

 

He keeps the title Mushin in all three and is written 'God of Martial Arts.' Now look at NA. The man doesn't even keep his name, Mushin is now his name with the bastardized grammar, and Divine Fist his title. Which means the westernization literally named him God of Martial Arts the God of Martial Arts. I point this out specifically in the Open Discussion.

 

LWS deleted my post.

Edited by Rahaya

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Ikasu   

 

 

I keep being informed of more and more faults with this so-called "translation". I'm beginning to have more issues with it than I originally thought.

 

I've posted in the Open Discussion something similar, just with Jin Seo Yeon's name. I'll find it very interesting if it gets deleted.

But if it does I will not hesitate to post it again. Because as LWS said so himself, they were given direct instructions to not alter the core NPC's names, at the very least.

 

Besides, "Jinsoyun" is effectively pronounced the same as "Jin Seo Yeon" would be - we were given very direct instructions to not alter the names of core NPCs too much from their source, if at all.

 

And that first part is simply not correct. They've essentially changed her name to a completely different one.

 

Hopefully instead of getting deleted, it gets addressed.

Edited by Ikasu

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Rahaya   

I keep being informed of more and more faults with this so-called "translation". I'm beginning to have more issues with it than I originally thought.

 

I've posted in the Open Discussion something similar, just with Jin Seo Yeon's name. I'll find it very interesting if it gets deleted.

But if it does I will not hesitate to post it again. Because as LWS said so himself, they were given direct instructions to not alter the core NPC's names, at the very least.

 

What is even worse, is that in the case of Mushin. They removed his name for 'simplification.' He is referred to as Mushin in game a lot rather than his name which only comes up when digging into his past in the desert. So that was apparently too complicated for Westerners to understand that Mushin is a title. He is called Mushin instead of his name because of respect. It is a very big thing in Asian culture. He was trained in the tower to become the God of MArtial Arts, and sacrificed to keep the Demon Emperor sealed.

 

What westernization did was remove the significance of his title. They removed the reason WHY people called him Mushin instead of his name like the other three. And you should read what LWS said about why the PC is called Jyan. Higher ups wanted the PC to be called something Asiany, but were forbidden to use an actual 'Asian' word. So in a game where they base off Korea, we have a made up Chinese word, and gibberish Jyansei that sounds vaguely Japanese. 

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Mage   

They should just call the PC Disciple. As in student of the martial arts. At the higher levels the PC could be called Master, Expert, Adept, or something along those lines. Or better yet, use a real Asian word! 

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I don't like it when a foreign movie or TV show ends up with an altered story for US release, but I don't really play an MMO for the story. I play for the social aspects and the PVP. The story also has very limited entertainment value (it's really only "good" the first time")  if you even bother to read it rather than click through it just for the rewards. The replay value of an MMO is rolling alts and unless story progression grants access to restricted regions or the quest rewards are significant most people skip the story completely on successive play throughs (of course there will be exceptions). 

 

Ultimately content changes from the original version to the version I play only matter to me if we miss out completely on certain items or map locations or dungeons or playable/usable content that has a long term use or presence, like permanent quest reward equipment or vanity items, recipes or an NPC to purchase a certain consumable, etc.

 

Personally it makes no difference to me because I'm only playing the one version so I won't know the difference. Story is less than 5% of my enjoyment of an MMO in general and long term, anyway.

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Renn   

I don't like it when a foreign movie or TV show ends up with an altered story for US release, but I don't really play an MMO for the story. I play for the social aspects and the PVP. The story also has very limited entertainment value (it's really only "good" the first time")  if you even bother to read it rather than click through it just for the rewards. The replay value of an MMO is rolling alts and unless story progression grants access to restricted regions or the quest rewards are significant most people skip the story completely on successive play throughs (of course there will be exceptions). 

 

Ultimately content changes from the original version to the version I play only matter to me if we miss out completely on certain items or map locations or dungeons or playable/usable content that has a long term use or presence, like permanent quest reward equipment or vanity items, recipes or an NPC to purchase a certain consumable, etc.

 

Personally it makes no difference to me because I'm only playing the one version so I won't know the difference. Story is less than 5% of my enjoyment of an MMO in general and long term, anyway.

It's only good the first time. The same could be applied to any kind of entertainment media revolving around a story. If it makes no difference to you, that's fine, but there are those who do want the story to be unaltered. I find it acceptable to protest against these small changes but it's understandable if they manage to go through anyways, unfortunately, not everybody is going to think like that. Personally, I'd like to avoid this: https://youtu.be/mykuHyGiapM?t=8s because that's what these small changes to something as important as a name (and a few other things) feel like to me. Just plain silly and unnecessary.

 

In the end though, you admitted it makes no difference to you. Why are you here? I'm not trying to be mean or kick you out. It just sounds like you're not contributing toward or against any actions NCSoft has made.

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Jayrune   

It's a sad state of affairs when this thread has a grand total of 2 pages after a month while that other thread is on page 24 in what, 2 days?

 

Seems artificial outrage is the only thing that gets any attention nowadays.

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paradigm   

It's a sad state of affairs when this thread has a grand total of 2 pages after a month while that other thread is on page 24 in what, 2 days?

 

Seems artificial outrage is the only thing that gets any attention nowadays.

 

I'll be honest, I didn't understand the full crux of the issue during Alpha Beta Test, but it's clear now, NCSoft spent all their time cleansing the story, and putting all servers in one location instead of giving us foreign language pack, or DECENT voice-acting.  Say bye bye to my 250$ (2 masters packs).  For weeks people complained about spreading out servers and at the very least providing FOREIGN language packs as an alternative to the NA ones, but nope, we got shafted there too.

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Familiar   

Better ? You're kidding right ?

Why would I be? Like someone can't seriously disagree with you that they like the story better now?

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Ikasu   

What is even worse, is that in the case of Mushin. They removed his name for 'simplification.' He is referred to as Mushin in game a lot rather than his name which only comes up when digging into his past in the desert. So that was apparently too complicated for Westerners to understand that Mushin is a title. He is called Mushin instead of his name because of respect. It is a very big thing in Asian culture. He was trained in the tower to become the God of MArtial Arts, and sacrificed to keep the Demon Emperor sealed.

 

What westernization did was remove the significance of his title. They removed the reason WHY people called him Mushin instead of his name like the other three. And you should read what LWS said about why the PC is called Jyan. Higher ups wanted the PC to be called something Asiany, but were forbidden to use an actual 'Asian' word. So in a game where they base off Korea, we have a made up Chinese word, and gibberish Jyansei that sounds vaguely Japanese. 

I'm drawing the conclusion that they don't actually care about the depth behind names or titles, ruining the cultural meanings and reasons. They don't care about the depth the game offers at all.

 

Horrid.

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Rahaya   

Why would I be? Like someone can't seriously disagree with you that they like the story better now?

I am afraid I don't understand how removing depth from a story makes it better. And the change to the moonwater transition is objectively horrid.

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Familiar   

Yes if you're a redneck yankee who neither knows nor wishes to know about other cultures. Go back to polishing your gun collection cowboy.

Ah, playing video games is how you choose to learn about other cultures? That makes sense yeah. Here's a little cultural enlightenment from me to you: you can't be a redneck yankee. Besides the fact that the ad hominem attacks make you look childish, your lack of knowledge about my culture seems to point to the fact that video games might not be the best way to experience them. Just a thought. Juuuuust a thought...

 

 

 

I am afraid I don't understand how removing depth from a story makes it better. And the change to the moonwater transition is objectively horrid.

Well, maybe it wasn't that good in the first place? Perhaps some people like the way it is now more than they liked the way it was in the other versions. Is that wrong?

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Rahaya   

 

Well, maybe it wasn't that good in the first place? Perhaps some people like the way it is now more than they liked the way it was in the other versions. Is that wrong?

Your first sentence does not address depth at all. Do you know what depth or lack thereof you are talking about? I'd like to make sure we are on the same level before engaging with you.

 

Do you have any experience in what the story was in other versions compared to now? Feel free to post how it was made better. I did a more complete breakdown in 'English Localization Feedback' thread of mine. Some things are neutral or work within the narrative. What I posted is where it is worse or unnecessary. Often both. Somethings I was confused on the reason for but withholding judgment and a few things I felt was insulting.

 

Go ahead and match it. I'd like to see what worked better for you. Also, I'd like to see how the moonwater transition is better than the other versions, considering the other versions were coherent while the 'new' NA version requires that you don't think about it. At all. For it to make sense.

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Familiar   

the 'new' NA version requires that you don't think about it. At all. For it to make sense.

So you admit it! For people who care nothing for the story, and just skip past all the cutscenes, this version is better! Well, since that seems to be the majority of people as far as I know, I think they're doing the right thing for their audience. You guys are a minority, making a lot of fuss about a lot of nothing. Something that will in no way impact your ability to progress in the game at all. In fact, something that if you hadn't already been playing other versions of the game, you wouldn't even KNOW about. You think perhaps that's why they didn't want people playing other versions of the game? Maybe?

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Rahaya   

So you admit it! For people who care nothing for the story, and just skip past all the cutscenes, this version is better! Well, since that seems to be the majority of people as far as I know, I think they're doing the right thing for their audience. You guys are a minority, making a lot of fuss about a lot of nothing. Something that will in no way impact your ability to progress in the game at all. In fact, something that if you hadn't already been playing other versions of the game, you wouldn't even KNOW about. You think perhaps that's why they didn't want people playing other versions of the game? Maybe?

For people that care nothing about the story, it would have worked far better for them to just place mobs in the open world with no quests at all, correct? After all, any story is skipped over anyway. They would save quite a lot of money by simply deactivating it. Or possibly simply not do anything with the story, as the 'audience' won't be reading it anyway.

 

Nothing they do with the story is better for anyone not reading it. 

 

You have no argument.

 

Also, I'd like for you to point out where it was mentioned they didn't want people playing the other versions. My very first post says that I can understand Chinese. Are you trying to say NCSoft wouldn't want me giving them money and playing the Chinese version of the game?

Edited by Rahaya

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For people that care nothing about the story, it would have worked far better for them to just place mobs in the open world with no quests at all, correct? After all, any story is skipped over anyway. They would save quite a lot of money by simply deactivating it. Or possibly simply not do anything with the story, as the 'audience' won't be reading it anyway.

 

Nothing they do with the story is better for anyone not reading it. 

 

You have no argument.

 

Also, I'd like for you to point out where it was mentioned they didn't want people playing the other versions. My very first post says that I can understand Chinese. Are you trying to say NCSoft wouldn't want me giving them money and playing the Chinese version of the game?

 

 

Or for people who dont care about the story they could do it diablo esque and just stick them in a dungeon with endless monsters till they hit 45 and then let them out into the real world. fragile emotions and all intact, though for as PC as some of these people are i expect they hold a funeral after every monster kill. and then yell if you decide to eat the dead monsters leg.

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Familiar   

 I'd like for you to point out where it was mentioned they didn't want people playing the other versions. My very first post says that I can understand Chinese. Are you trying to say NCSoft wouldn't want me giving them money and playing the Chinese version of the game?

I assumed them banning foreigners would've been a pretty big clue. If you "can" play the foreign versions and you can get banned for speaking in public chat...um maybe that's a hint?

 

Anyway, you're wrong about "Nothing they do with the story is better for anyone not reading it" because having to spam f just a few less seconds matters. Also, did you notice how none of the changes made questing longer? I did see at least one that made it shorter though...

 

 

Or for people who dont care about the story they could do it diablo esque and just stick them in a dungeon with endless monsters till they hit 45 and then let them out into the real world. fragile emotions and all intact, though for as PC as some of these people are i expect they hold a funeral after every monster kill. and then yell if you decide to eat the dead monsters leg.

First, that would be great. I know they're not going to do that though, so I won't start 20 threads about it on the forums begging for them to change it. Second, not caring about the story has nothing at all to do with PCness so, I don't get your point. I mean, if we're talking fragile feelings, you're about to need high blood pressure medication because they changed some quest text. Talk about fragile...

Edited by Familiar

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Killian   

I assumed them banning foreigners would've been a pretty big clue. If you "can" play the foreign versions and you can get banned for speaking in public chat...um maybe that's a hint?

 

Anyway, you're wrong about "Nothing they do with the story is better for anyone not reading it" because having to spam f just a few less seconds matters. Also, did you notice how none of the changes made questing longer? I did see at least one that made it shorter though...

 

 

First, that would be great. I know they're not going to do that though, so I won't start 20 threads about it on the forums begging for them to change it. Second, not caring about the story has nothing at all to do with PCness so, I don't get your point. I mean, if we're talking fragile feelings, you're about to need high blood pressure medication because they changed some quest text. Talk about fragile...

 

I'm genuinely curious why you're playing this game at all if you would actually prefer to just be shoved in an endless dungeon. If you don't care about any of the lore, or characters, or visuals and just want to "mash F" as you say and reach end cap ASAP until there's nothing to do...I don't know, what's the draw? Unless you're just spouting to get a rile out of folks, but if not then I don't get it.

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