ViolenceUndone

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About ViolenceUndone

  1. NCsoft can you give arena some atention?

    I did a lot of research on the latency, and there's one bit of good news: 10100 is no longer the active game port when you're in an arena, and that's the one that usually jumps to 250+ms. It flips to a different IP and port 11900 if I remember correctly, though that one still has a ping of 100+ for me and it's still too laggy once you're up in plat ratings. I have used a TCP trace to both IP/port combinations and have 30-35ms ping to the public address for both, so the remaining 100+ms is occurring within their data center. I went through something like 14 emails with their tech support and them trying to blame my ISP and me proving repeatedly that it wasn't before I finally got somebody who said he'd pass it on to the dev team, as if they don't already know from the hundreds of posts about the lag. I have very low hopes for the future of this game in the western market, and at this point I'm just keeping an eye out for the day when the bots are gone (and most likely, the lag will go away with them, since they're probably flooding the servers beyond capacity).
  2. Is FM ping friendly?? Can i play him on wireless?

    I would argue that FM is more ping reliant at a high skill cap than all other classes. Even though I've got 30ms ping to my server in open-world (and to the IP/port using a TCP tracert to the PvP server), I still get 200+ms in-game in the arena and in cross-server dungeons. This makes LMB-RMB ani-cancelling difficult and just flat out not work a lot of the time and only one skill goes off, whereas it works flawlessly in the open-world maps. If you try to weave RMB's into as many places as possible to keep a freeze stunlock combo going, you'll miss the timing on certain skills. For instance, an ideal double air combo out of an impact double stun would be something similar to the following based on what cooldowns and spec you have, but this is based off of Jaesung's PvP "basic combo" that so many people know already, and I'm just explaining how high ping just makes it fall apart. Setup with Freeze, 2 chill stacks, and their Tab on cooldown. Can do this using Glacial beam, 2x LMB RMB, or often times I'll get 2 chill stacks then Frost Fury them as soon as my orbs need refreshing. Impact (stun) LMB X RMB (freeze) Can't fit all 3 here and have to set up with LMB before the first Impact instead so this is just X RMB Impact (stun) RMB LMB Tab (1 chill + knockup) Z RMB 4 (place Ring of Fire bomb, 2 chill, aerial grip) If you try to RMB here, you'll miss aerial grab and your combo is cut way short Bolt Bash to drop them with ~2sec left onto bomb (knockup again) With bad lag, the 2sec mark on the Phantom Grip bar can be a half a second off or more based on how long it's taking to fire off skills. It's REALLY easy to miss this and either have them roll out of the bomb or have it detonate too early LMB C RMB (focus regen from C, freeze) You can miss 1-2 F's if you use RMB here F spam RMB Impact You can use this RMB instead of the previous one, but if you don't use both, you miss out on the chill stack which will cut your combo short later on The combo goes on for quite a while longer, but you've probably already missed several required chill stacks or just whiffed on timing the Ring of Fire knockup. This means you can't get another Impact stun in and they're out of the stunlock. The double aerial itself doesn't add much damage over a normal aerial combo and the strength lies more in the extra chill stack. Without it you have to skip the F spam (and its good chunk of damage) or you lose the stunlock. There's just so many things that can go wrong to screw this up just due to ping even if you're playing it perfectly. Even a simple LMB RMB Impact can take too long to fire off and they might get out of the first stun and have time to defend/iframe. FM PvP in general revolves around LMB RMB Impact stuns and you'll miss a LOT of these with high ping. For instance, if you don't have Frost Tornado up against a BD and he's not focus starved...you can never get an Impact stun off on him without blowing other cooldowns (can try to time a char or beam in between their CC immunity from spinning but will probably waste it, can mash 4 to phantom grip and immediately drain to drop them and hit them with the last RMB and Impact while they're on the ground, but they'll probably be quicker with their Z to break free from the grip and punish you, etc.). If you're further than 5ft away or so, they'll see an RMB coming at them and spin to deflect and daze you, so you have to be really close...which then means there's a longer time between the RMB landing and your Impact going off, so they'll spin to break the freeze, get free focus and a speed buff, and your Impact will hit the spin and now you're deflected and dazed too, just for good measure. In comparison, once I set somebody up on KFM or BD, I can ani-cancel spam all day long and the only downside to high ping is getting one less attack in before the next stun/daze.
  3. Summoner parry not working

    They're a rear charge in relation to the assassin's original position. This goes for BM/BD dash charge as well. This means you can turn your back to them and pop Block and they'll hit your block instead and get deflected, giving you the CC advantage. None of the sin skills pierce defense. Shadowslip is just a charge, Swiftstep can be a daze or knockdown, Sneak Attack can be a daze. However...if they're smart, they'll see you turn around and then just hit 1 and charge your back with Shadow Dash/Sidewinder for a free stealth proc and stun if specced for it. It all comes down to mindgames and who can force an error out of the other first.
  4. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Well, I quit. After 10 exchanges over 3 days, my support ticket finally got to these last exchanges: Marlon Today at 03:17 Hello there, The concerns you have regarding this issue are very common but the best way I can explain this is with a highway analogy. Your house is your PC, your car is the data and your destination is our game server. Now, the goal here is to reach the destination in the shortest amount of time possible but how you accomplish that really depends on several factors. Traffic, road conditions, time of day... etc etc. Depending on what route you take to reach your destination, your arrival time will likely be affected by these factors. For example, if you take the city streets instead of the highway, you will reach your destination much latter than if you had simply taken the highway from the start. This is the same for data across the Internet. As your game changes, so does your destination. Depending on where that game server is located, you could be driving to the local corner store or half way around the world. This is why one game can have no issues connecting and playing without "lag" and another game can. Just like on the highway, sometimes there is traffic and sometimes the route is clear. To get around that traffic, you have to change your course. That is what needs to happen here. Your data's "course" is going through a series of "hops" which are negatively affecting your overall connection. At each "hop" you are losing more and more data until when you finally reach your destination, you don't have enough data to complete whatever task you were attempting to accomplish. In keeping with the car analogy, think of driving a car without any nuts and bolts. As you drive to your destination, bits and pieces of the car are falling off, resulting in less and less of the car making it to the destination. By the time you reach your destination, your car is only a shell of it's former self. Now, normally this would simply mean you are disconnected because not enough data was received. However, due to security concerns, client / server based applications like Guild Wars put the server ahead of the client. Meaning that if there is a dispute between where your character is located in the world, the server always wins. So when you drop this massive amount of data en route to the server, it has to guess in order to fill in the missing data. This causes your character to warp around the screen as it is trying to sync with the server. If the data was reaching the server intact, this wouldn't happen and your character's movement and actions would be fluid. In the end, you will need to contact your ISP directly to have them resolve this issue. This is simply because they are the ones that control the route your data takes. NCSoft has no control over your data until it reaches our servers and as such, we need to get your ISP involved. Regards, Marlon NCSOFT Support Team ViolenceUndone Today at 08:59 Well, since you're going to talk down to me and speak in analogies after I already said that I'm a software engineer and fully understand how this works already, it's time for me to do the same. Forget that I ever mentioned packet loss, as you're clearly using THREE WHOLE DROPPED PACKETS (completely trivial and wouldn't even be noticed on the client) as an excuse to avoid responsibility for the problem. Let's just focus on the ping problems, since 250+ms ping is UNPLAYABLE in a game that requires fast reactions. My house's address is my IP, and your building's address is your IP. The port number is like a gate number outside that lets the car know which door to go in. Now, as I have shown REPEATEDLY, I am connecting to the same exact IP and port whether I am playing in an open-world map or an arena match. This means that either way, my car is traveling to the exact same building, and is going to take the exact same route to get there. If the highways are clear for one, then they're clear for the other as well. However, once my car gets to your building, there's different parking lots where it will need to go before ending at its final destination. Let's call the Poharan server "Lot A" and the cross-server arena "Lot B". When I'm going to Lot A, it's a very short drive past the gate and there's nobody in my way so I get there almost instantly, and that is why my total trip time is roughly the same as the time it takes to get to the gate. (In-game ping while on Poharan open-world maps is the same ~30ms as I get while pinging the external IP directly). Now, when I switch over to Lot B, there's a ton of people also trying to get to Lot B, there's more gates to go through that can't handle all of those people, and it's also a longer and way more complicated drive to get there that takes 8 times as long as just driving up to the front gate. This is why when I switch to the arena my ping jumps from 30ms to 230+ms. It is entirely INTERNAL to NCSoft and the inability for the infrastructure to efficiently get everybody to Lot B. I'm attaching screenshots showing simultaneous pings to the external game server IP (64.25.37.235:10100). One is coming from PsPing sent over TCP (which just hits the external IP address) and one is coming from the game's connection as shown in the Resource Monitor. In the open world, both PsPing and the Resource Monitor are showing between 30-40ms. As soon as I go into the arena, my in-game ping shoots up to 230ms, but my PsPing is still in the 30s. This means my route is FINE. The difference in the overall trip time is happening BEHIND the external route for which my ISP is responsible. Once again, please escalate this ticket as you have done nothing but show condescension while providing no real information or help. openWorldWithPsPing.png (4 MB) arenaLobbyWithPsPing.png (1 MB) ViolenceUndone Today at 17:29 Somebody pointed out on the forums that the game actually DOES switch IP/port when entering the arena. Just to test this out, I ran a TCP tracert to both IPs/ports to confirm that I am following the exact same external route despite the IP changing, and I am. All of the visible hops are the same except for the final destination. C:\tracetcp_v1.0.2>tracetcp.exe 64.25.37.235:10100 Tracing route to 64.25.37.235 [64.25.37-235.ncsoft.com] on port 10100 Over a maximum of 30 hops. 1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1 2 10 ms 24 ms 11 ms 23.28.197.1 [d28-23-1-197.dim.wideopenwest.com] 3 13 ms 11 ms 15 ms 76.73.171.5 [dynamic-76-73-171-5.knology.net] 4 14 ms 11 ms 12 ms 76.73.170.92 [76-73-170-92.knology.net] 5 * * * Request timed out. 6 * * * Request timed out. 7 35 ms 36 ms 66 ms 4.59.197.34 8 32 ms 32 ms 57 ms 64.25.32.9 [64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com] 9 32 ms 32 ms 50 ms 64.25.32.26 [64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com] 10 Destination Reached in 32 ms. Connection established to 64.25.37.235 Trace Complete. C:\tracetcp_v1.0.2>tracetcp.exe 64.25.37.226:11900 Tracing route to 64.25.37.226 [64.25.37-226.ncsoft.com] on port 11900 Over a maximum of 30 hops. 1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1 2 13 ms 12 ms 17 ms 23.28.197.1 [d28-23-1-197.dim.wideopenwest.com] 3 12 ms 12 ms 10 ms 76.73.171.5 [dynamic-76-73-171-5.knology.net] 4 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 76.73.170.92 [76-73-170-92.knology.net] 5 * * * Request timed out. 6 * * * Request timed out. 7 37 ms 32 ms 33 ms 4.59.197.34 8 32 ms 41 ms 31 ms 64.25.32.9 [64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com] 9 33 ms 33 ms 33 ms 64.25.32.26 [64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com] 10 Destination Reached in 32 ms. Connection established to 64.25.37.226 Trace Complete. I'm taking the same route to the same place and receiving the same ping to both. So back to the analogy, I'm driving my car to the same place, and the only difference is the trip to the parking lot once at your building. Anthony Today at 23:19 Hi there, We’re sorry to hear that we haven’t been able to help you reach a resolution for the issue you've been experiencing. At this point, we have gone through all the resources and suggestions at our disposal. We regret that we are unable to continue troubleshooting this issue with you. We recommend that you contact your ISP for further assistance. You may wish to review the official Blade and Soul Technical Support forum, where you will find a wealth of information and support provided by players. You may find a resolution to the issue already has been posted on the forum or you could create a new forum post to request input about the problem. You will find the Blade and Soul Technical Support Forum on the links below: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forums/ Again, I am sorry that we cannot help you further, but if you have any other questions, please let us know. Regards, Anthony NCSOFT Support Team ViolenceUndone Today at 23:51 I don't have any further questions, because I will be quitting this game. With literally HUNDREDS of posts on the forums about the lag in the arena, one would think that NCSoft would at least ACKNOWLEDGE the problem and fix it. It was acknowledged ONCE on the forums in relation to the lag that EU players were experiencing in the arena as if it were an EU-only problem, but it's not. There has been no further communication, no follow-up, and no details on any efforts to identify and resolve the cause. As such, I have lost faith in NCSoft's ability to fix the game's extremely obvious and gamebreaking issues in the arena, namely high latency and bots. I have played virtually every NCSoft game since Lineage 2, and they have all had issues that made me lose interest in them over time, but this is the final straw for me. I will be posting this support thread (with my personal info redacted) in its entirety everywhere that I can while warning people to stay away from NCSoft's products in the future. Later all, I'm out. EDIT: I'll be posting the entire thread tomorrow when I have time to redact any personal info from attachments and stuff, just so everybody can see the ridiculous hoops they make you jump through just to get a worthless response in the end.
  5. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Internet Service Provider.
  6. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    I'll refer you back to the other thread where they explained this, again. Don't get me wrong, I find the lag in arenas to be completely unbearable and I think it is entirely NCSoft's fault and they need to fix their game. How do they expect people to get into eSports for this game when our pings are through the roof? However, I think you're barking up the wrong tree and made assumptions about the cause that aren't correct, and then NCSoft just continues to ignore the entire issue because they already know that part isn't true. This seems to be an issue with the game servers or their internal infrastructure (something that happens within the datacenter, rather than anything to do with the route being taken to get there). Like I said, if all the arenas were being hosted in the US and that was the cause of the problem for EU players, then I would have a lovely 30ms ping and be happy.
  7. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Just for fun, I also ran some TCP tracerts to the different servers to show that both servers for both regions are connecting to their respective locations. You can see that I'm going from the US over to Frankfurt in both cases and following nearly the same route, just as both of the NA servers are following the exact same route. Again, pings are approximately the same within a region.
  8. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Well, despite your attitude...you actually did point me to an interesting fact, that a new IP/port is opening on entering the actual arena match instead of just the arena lobby and the 10100 connection is going into an idle state. However, you also proved your own point to be false. I checked my connections while in an arena match to get the IP that matches port 11900 that opens up when entering the match. I then used PsPing to send a TCP ping to both of the IPs you showed as well as the two that I get on NA. EU Open World: EU Arena: NA Open World: NA Arena: You can see that the pings match up correctly, as they should. Both NA servers are returning the same ping for me, and both EU servers are the same as well. You're hitting an EU server, whether open world or arena. However, I still have no idea what's going on behind the scenes that the game itself gets such terrible lag when I can externally ping it just fine.
  9. Ping

    Here's the most recent emails from the support thread showing their support team's uselessness. Marlon Today at 03:17 Hello there, The concerns you have regarding this issue are very common but the best way I can explain this is with a highway analogy. Your house is your PC, your car is the data and your destination is our game server. Now, the goal here is to reach the destination in the shortest amount of time possible but how you accomplish that really depends on several factors. Traffic, road conditions, time of day... etc etc. Depending on what route you take to reach your destination, your arrival time will likely be affected by these factors. For example, if you take the city streets instead of the highway, you will reach your destination much latter than if you had simply taken the highway from the start. This is the same for data across the Internet. As your game changes, so does your destination. Depending on where that game server is located, you could be driving to the local corner store or half way around the world. This is why one game can have no issues connecting and playing without "lag" and another game can. Just like on the highway, sometimes there is traffic and sometimes the route is clear. To get around that traffic, you have to change your course. That is what needs to happen here. Your data's "course" is going through a series of "hops" which are negatively affecting your overall connection. At each "hop" you are losing more and more data until when you finally reach your destination, you don't have enough data to complete whatever task you were attempting to accomplish. In keeping with the car analogy, think of driving a car without any nuts and bolts. As you drive to your destination, bits and pieces of the car are falling off, resulting in less and less of the car making it to the destination. By the time you reach your destination, your car is only a shell of it's former self. Now, normally this would simply mean you are disconnected because not enough data was received. However, due to security concerns, client / server based applications like Guild Wars put the server ahead of the client. Meaning that if there is a dispute between where your character is located in the world, the server always wins. So when you drop this massive amount of data en route to the server, it has to guess in order to fill in the missing data. This causes your character to warp around the screen as it is trying to sync with the server. If the data was reaching the server intact, this wouldn't happen and your character's movement and actions would be fluid. In the end, you will need to contact your ISP directly to have them resolve this issue. This is simply because they are the ones that control the route your data takes. NCSoft has no control over your data until it reaches our servers and as such, we need to get your ISP involved. Regards, Marlon NCSOFT Support Team [me] Today at 08:59 Well, since you're going to talk down to me and speak in analogies after I already said that I'm a software engineer and fully understand how this works already, it's time for me to do the same. Forget that I ever mentioned packet loss, as you're clearly using THREE WHOLE DROPPED PACKETS (completely trivial and wouldn't even be noticed on the client) as an excuse to avoid responsibility for the problem. Let's just focus on the ping problems, since 250+ms ping is UNPLAYABLE in a game that requires fast reactions. My house's address is my IP, and your building's address is your IP. The port number is like a gate number outside that lets the car know which door to go in. Now, as I have shown REPEATEDLY, I am connecting to the same exact IP and port whether I am playing in an open-world map or an arena match. This means that either way, my car is traveling to the exact same building, and is going to take the exact same route to get there. If the highways are clear for one, then they're clear for the other as well. However, once my car gets to your building, there's different parking lots where it will need to go before ending at its final destination. Let's call the Poharan server "Lot A" and the cross-server arena "Lot B". When I'm going to Lot A, it's a very short drive past the gate and there's nobody in my way so I get there almost instantly, and that is why my total trip time is roughly the same as the time it takes to get to the gate. (In-game ping while on Poharan open-world maps is the same ~30ms as I get while pinging the external IP directly). Now, when I switch over to Lot B, there's a ton of people also trying to get to Lot B, there's more gates to go through that can't handle all of those people, and it's also a longer and way more complicated drive to get there that takes 8 times as long as just driving up to the front gate. This is why when I switch to the arena my ping jumps from 30ms to 230+ms. It is entirely INTERNAL to NCSoft and the inability for the infrastructure to efficiently get everybody to Lot B. I'm attaching screenshots showing simultaneous pings to the external game server IP (64.25.37.235:10100). One is coming from PsPing sent over TCP (which just hits the external IP address) and one is coming from the game's connection as shown in the Resource Monitor. In the open world, both PsPing and the Resource Monitor are showing between 30-40ms. As soon as I go into the arena, my in-game ping shoots up to 230ms, but my PsPing is still in the 30s. This means my route is FINE. The difference in the overall trip time is happening BEHIND the external route for which my ISP is responsible. Once again, please escalate this ticket as you have done nothing but show condescension while providing no real information or help. I'm going to keep climbing their support chain until I finally get somebody who admits that it's their issue and gets it to their dev/infrastructure teams. If they refuse to admit their problem, I'm leaving the game. Simple as that.
  10. Ping

    Honestly...I doubt it. I've shown repeatedly that it's an internal NCSoft issue in multiple threads and it continues to be completely ignored by the mods. I've been dealing with their tech support since yesterday, going through 8 emails back and forth via 3 different support people who were all just copy/pasting their standard diagnostics crap, before one of them had me run PingPlotter to an ncsoft server (64.25.39.1) that showed an average 34ms ping (which is the same as my open-world ping on NA Poharan), and I took a screenshot of that running next to my resource monitor while in the arena lobby that showed I had a constant 240ms ping in the arena. However, out of 726 traces done over 30 minutes, THREE packets were lost. THREE. That's 0.4% packet loss. And then they tried to blame my ISP for it because three whole packets were dropped in 30 minutes. I've now requested for them to escalate my ticket to somebody who actually knows WTF they're talking about and we'll see if they'll ever actually admit it's a problem on their end that they need to fix. If they refuse to admit that it's an issue with their arena servers and that they need to fix it...I'm done. I've given them the benefit of the doubt and the chance to do decent work and not just throw garbage hotfixes together, but they won't even admit that it's their problem at this point, and THAT is what is really pissing me off as a software engineer. You have to have integrity and accountability, or you're no better than the botters that are ruining the game (that they're also still failing to fix).
  11. The balance is real!

    In the middle of his stream, after facing a summoner on his BM, Jaesung said that in the current patch and with only lvl 45, don't bother playing BM in PvP and just use it to PvE and play a different class for PvP. When a former world champ who plays the game for a living says not to bother with BM because even he can't make it work, I wouldn't bother as a normal player.
  12. Whoops, I see where the confusion came from. I meant that Jaesung ragequit during one stream, not that he was quitting the game entirely. Those were two separate statements there. And while I understand that they're trying to come up with a longterm solution, the problem is that it's going to be too little, too late, because there's too many people quitting already and there won't be a big enough playerbase to make eSports viable. The game never should have made it to a Western release with these issues (bots already existed in other regions doing the same thing), and it would have been better to delay it even further than release it in its current state. GameGuard is currently pointless since the first thing any hacker/botter does is completely bypass/disable it so it doesn't even run and it doesn't matter what it is or is not able to detect. However, the Taiwan region just implemented a heartbeat that checks if GameGuard is open every 5 minutes to avoid that bypass and it would be nice to see them do that in the NA/EU regions so that GameGuard is at least doing something, even if it doesn't detect everything.
  13. Bots are even higher than 1800 now, especially after the reset. Before the reset, I was still fighting them in platinum. Part of the reason for this is that there's fewer human players left to beat them back down into gold since everybody is quitting because NCSoft isn't addressing the botting or hacking issues quickly enough. It's pretty bad when Jaesung ragequits in the middle of a stream when he's sponsored by NCSoft and other sponsored streamers are quitting, which is basically saying, "You can't pay me enough to keep playing this game," which is really really pathetic.
  14. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Here's my evidence. Ping over TCP to game server: Open world: Arena Lobby: Arena Match: Side note: I was logged into my new Warlock at lvl 16 when I wanted to get these screenshots, so I ended up doing an arena match with him at 16 with no skill points allocated against a lvl 30 Sin and won. Pretty amusing to me.
  15. Everyone who has arena lag in EU

    Except his ping tests were wrong. You need to use PsPing.exe -t (from Microsoft's PsTools on TechNet) to ping the correct IP and port (10100) via TCP. You can find the correct IP by looking at the Resource Monitor for the IP that's using port 10100. When I do this to my server (Poharan, US), I get 30ms, however it jumps to 250ms in-game when I join the arena (even though it's the same IP/port). This could mean two things. Either it's an internal issue on their end, or the game sends data differently when you're in the arena that's being flagged as BitTorrent and it's getting throttled by my ISP or at some hop along the way. The latter has happened for some other games, so it wouldn't be entirely surprising, but that was an issue for those games 100% of the time and it seems odd that it would only occur in the arena since one would think that the data would be sent in the same way. NCSoft also stated that there are NO physical servers in Austin, TX and that the US servers are in Dallas, but their office is in Austin and that's where they are registered, which is why looking up the location points to Austin. See this thread for details.