Shilen

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Everything posted by Shilen

  1. Act 7

    The leniencies NCSoft has taken with this act is astonishing. The sense of urgency, that the entire Act is built upon, is gone. Maknae/Cricket again received the axe, and is now more stupid and gullible than ever before. The amount of ridicule that you are supposed to put up with in this act alone is ridiculous. There is no reason for why we should care for Seo Yeon/Soyun – or any of our students for that matter – because the alterations made to their characters has made them nothing but annoying, bratty, and crude. Instead of having proper, well-written characters we get caricatures and stick-figures. Julia acts and talks like a 12 year old. She, here, just isn't a villain you can take seriously. There is an alarming shortage of logic following the lore, and this act in particular. The (multiple) name changes are bizarre and ridiculous, Kun Hyang/Ku Yang in particular. For a game that has prided itself as "eastern fantasy", the eastern part sure is lacking. Kun Hyang has no real place in the storyline. He lacks the depth and intensity that was found in his original character. Honestly, he's just a blue haired Yu Chun, just more insulting and less flirty. The qualms about going against his clan, superior and friends, together with the need to get justice for his mentor, toppled with depression/survivors guilt and a death wish has been swept away. The moral dilemmas and controversy surrounding him are merely gone (mostly because of the massive change in the Eight Masters' storyline), which makes for such a trite character. There isn’t a sliver of depth, let alone anything that resembles Blade & Soul, in this unholy mess that NCSoft is calling a storyline. The Eight Masters were never manipulated and/or brainwashed. They were lied to somewhat, yes, but they willingly followed Julia. That is what caused the entire conflict with Kun Hyang in the first place, and the clash of ideals between the groups. Instead of sticking to the actual storyline, this got resolved in the most cliche way possible, "lol we were manipulated". The same was done with Geo Geo Bung in Act 4, this isn’t something new. But it is a shitty way to tie up loose ends, especially when the original storyline did something different. Similarly, their reasoning for doing what they’re doing has been thrown out the window. Thing is, they know Julia is screwing them over. They know they are doing horrible things, and for whom. Direct quote: "Juria was originally an alias, and it was true that Juria, also known as Son Ban was one of the Council of Eight. In fact, she was the one who saved the rest of the Council of Eight during the fight against Jin Seo Yeon. But now... They likely know this fact. But they do not want to believe it. They yearned for the Council of Eight to be alive, so they refused to listen to him (Kun Hyang). It is natural for them to long for the Council of Eight because not single one of them was officially recognized as a true successor to the Council of Eight. When reality bites, it is better to rest in the warmth of lies." The sense of duty and the love for their masters/mentors/families that was the driving force for their actions just isn’t there. Instead we get tirades upon tirades of how Jin Seo Yeon killed Taejin’s father, which, surprise, isn’t what the conflict ever was about . The hatred for Seo Yeon has close to nothing to do with personal affairs, and everything to do with... well, everything else. Taejin never once brings up the fact that she "killed his father" (because she didn’t.). She broke martial law, and used corrupted arts. She murdered her master. She tried to summon Satan. It’s personal to Taejin and the rest, of course, but not because of something Jin Seo Yeon directly did to them. The original Eight Masters has nothing to do with this, even if they "died to stop her". It’s a matter of duty, obligation, and honor. This isn’t uncommon in wuxia. Choul Mugoe isn’t Admiral of the southern Blackram fleet. There might be several Admirals, but it isn’t based merely on region as proposed here. No, he is Fleet Commander of the Blackram. He runs the entire ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing thing. The Dasari Palace isn’t "an altar and relics from the Stratus golden age". It is the capital of Stratus, and an actual ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing palace. Barely any of the cutscenes has been translated correctly. Take for example when we first see Julia, KR: Julia: "Going through all that trouble on account of one little kid?" Taejin: 2May I ask why you wanted us to come here? And also why you wanted us to bring the child..." Julia: "There is something important inside that child." *Jin Seo Yeon tries to bite Julia* Julia: "Oh my oh my, Jin Seo Yeon don’t you think you should be a better role model*...?" JSY: "For you...? Aren’t you older than me?" Julia: "hahaha, I suppose so/guess so...." *EN1 trans. directly Julia refers to JSY as "sister" (more spesifically older sister). JSY is confused about it since Julia is older than her. It really just means that the older one should set an example for the younger, not that they are actually related. (just for comparisons sake) NA: Julia: "Aww! This must be the little soybean!" Taejin: "Master Sanzu, we kept the little brat alive, just as you requested. Though I have to admit, killing her would have been easier." Julia: "Now, aren’t you the most adorable little mass murderer?" *JSY tries to bite Julia* Julia: "Careful with that temper. You might hurt somebody!" JSY: "I don’t hurt people. You’re the one who’s the bad guy." Julia: "Everyone’s a critic!" Now I get that the cultural differences (sister/senior thing) would be difficult to translate properly, even though the EN1 handled it pretty good imo, but the fact remains that these are completely different texts. Even the climax/final battle is nothing like how it is supposed to be. KR: "Did you know? The original purpose of the Twilight’s Edge is to open the door between dimensions. But what to do, the sword was broken into pieces in the last Divine Mandate ceremony. However, even though it is broken a single piece/fragment will allow the user to travel between continents. *crazy laugh* And it is right here! *stabs Jin Seo Yeon* If you want to see me, do your best to find me! I will be waiting.“ NA: "Remember when this squirt used the Twilight’s Edge to open the Dark Gate? Remember that? And then you flew into the sky and broke the sword into a million pieces! But wait! Just a small fragment of the Edge would be enough to open another Gate! Hahaha! So don’t worry. I know where to find one! It’s been fun. Take care, my precious babies! Until next time!" This couldn’t be more different from each other. It says complete opposite things. More contradictions appear when you speak to Kun Hyang, and he says Julia is now travelling between continents, which the cutscene says nothing of, only about opening new Dark Gates. Let alone that there is no reason for doing any of this. Act 7 is reeking of nonsensial-ness and contradictions. Not to mention this little gem; http://imgur.com/a/DNl9w "It was well known that the legendary Twilight’s Edge had the power to open doorways between realms." 1) No it isn’t. This was established as early as in act 3, and wasn’t changed for the western version. The entire point of retrieving that book in the Highland Central was exactly because it wasn't common knowledge. And the entire first passage have no grounds in the final boss/cutscene. "She knew the Edge’s explosion had lodged a sliver of the sword in Jinsoyun’s body." 2) That didn’t happen, and the shard didn’t enter Seo Yeon when the sword exploded. "This was the hope Zulia clung too.... Would her theory bear fruit, etc" 3) This wasn’t a theory, it was something Julia knew. She didn’t do everything on a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing hunch. "He had been gifted a new sister, and now she had been taken from him, just like his parents before her" 4) Spelling error. You’re wrongfully answering and explaining plot points before they are supposed to be answered. We aren’t supposed to get the answers to anything of this before act 8, and what has been written (specifically in this journal entry) contradicts story aspects and lore in said act. The result is that more things will have to be altered in act 8 to accommodate the western changes done to act 7. I don't get what is so hard about just localising the game faithfully. Not to say that this is everything, far from it, I just can’t be bothered rn to get into more obscurities, not to mention characterization. And yeah, sure, I know that this horse has been beaten to death a hundred times over by now. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck. /rant
  2. Act 7

    Sorry, but have you misquoted something? That is the dialogue for the last cutscene in Act 7, not the journal entry for finishing the quest. When I say that they are opposites I mean the gates Julia is talking about. In the NA/EU version Julia says she can open a gate only with a shard of the Twilight's Edge. Since the only gate she has talked about up until that point is the Dark Gate, so the only logical thing to conclude she is talking about would be the same thing (Dark Gate/portal to hell). But KR has no mention of a new Dark Gate, only a portal that can teleport you between "earthly" continents. Those are two very different things with very different contexts, and that is the problem. I could have worded it better though, "opposite" probably weren't the most fitting. Yeah, my mistake. I thought it referred to Jinbin.
  3. Chapter in Korean vers?

    Act 8, not 9.
  4. Act 7 question

    13 in total. The first past has 11, while the second part has 2.
  5. No, they are considered to be different regions, but not different continents. Viridian Forest and the Cinderlands is a single continent, they are connected to each other, but are merely different areas (most likely for gameplay reasons). The Gunwon area also falls into this category, and are a part of the southern continent. Its the same with Moonwater and Silverfrost, who belongs to the eastern continent. Lore-wise there are four continents, but we only have two currently- (southern = Stratus territory, eastern = Talus territory). In Act 8, Seorak itself I believe isn't considered a continent since it originally was a part of Moonwater. But the Kun City and the surrounding Persian-ish area is (don't know the name). Islands like Heavens Reach and Windrest are a part of Stratus. Khanda Vihar doesn't belong to any nation. Floating/Heavenly Island (faction area. we don't have that yet) belongs to Talus.
  6. Act 7 requirements (no spoilers please)

    I did the first part of Act 7 solo, on tw, with around 400 ap and 28k hp. It was difficult at times, but absolutely doable. 500-650 ap shouldn't be a problem at all.
  7. Sometimes the dungeons you have to beat in order to progress with the story are bugged. As already mentioned, story-related dungeons should have a solo-version that shouldn't be difficult to beat. But sometimes the game won't recognise that you are doing the main story and will end up giving you the real dungeon. Even if you're just fighting a boss, it will have the same hp/damage etc that it is supposed to. This might be the case here. Just exit the dungeon a time or two and you should be given the solo-version.
  8. Official Wiki - Powerbook

    Some of the comics have been translated to english (http://www.nc-comix.com/en), NCSoft just haven't really advertised it. It updates regularly, don't worry about that, we just haven't gotten all the comics yet. As for the other stuff, there is the Blade & Soul wiki, but I don't know how actively it is updated. There is also other fan-based sites like Bnstree (skill tree) and Bnscoffee, for calculating the cost for gear and help you progress. There are also a bunch of fan-sites for out-of-game marketplace, complete overviews for gear progression, etc. Blade and Soul Dojo and Blade and Soul RP has stuff on the characters and lore. I know that isn't exactly what you asked for, and I agree with you completely that something official, similar to the kr wiki would be nice to have. But there are tons of info online, even if it's not "official"; you just have to look for it. NCSoft should definitely make what they already have (like the comics) more accessible though.
  9. Lusung plot hole?

    In most cases I'd agree, but when there are blatant plotholes, or when something doesn't make sense in NA/EU, but it does in KR, then it can't really be helped to "compare" them to other versions. The best example of this would be Brightstone. It is exactly because we don't have an "untouched" storyline that these problems and plotholes exists in the first place. Add the reboot on top of it; if you don't know that Act 1-3 and Act 4 are different games story- and character wise, when you deconstruct the plot you'll have a hard time making sense of it all, simply because it don't add up. With a game like this, that's been censored and rewritten several times by now, you more or less need outside context in order to make sense of the story as a whole.
  10. Lusung plot hole?

    It's not really a plothole, just something NCSoft has changed from the source material. In KR the Raven King was Lusung himself, not some lieutenant or whatever. The "taken over by a demon" aspect is never there. It is the same with Jinsoyun having control over or being able to "summon" the Raven King, that's never spoken of on other servers (to the best of my knowledge). When it comes to the Act 2 cutscene though, it's a bit more complicated than that, since Act 1-3 follows the old story (where Jinsoyun wanted to kill the Demon Emperor, not summon him/destroy the world), so Act 4 story-wise is more or less detached from the rest of the game. During the reboot of the story, only Act 4 was actually rewritten, and nothing prior to that (i.e Act 1-3) was changed to supplement the new lore and character motivations, personality changes, and so on. Which means you have tons of plotlines that don’t add up, foreshadowing that goes nowhere, lore in different acts that contradict each other, etc etc. Jinsoyun's character (and therefore just about everything related to her) suffered the most for this, as she went from a very Lelouch Vi Britannia-esque character -- someone who becomes evil in order to defeat evil-- and an antagonist, into a straight-out villain. From someone who tried to kill the Demon Emperor (and in essence save the world), to becoming his servant and wanting to destroy it. This is just the result of that. (Jinsoyun was also never a vessel in the first place, Yunhwa was, which just causes more plotholes. From what I can gather, Lusung wasn't supposed to be a vessel after his resurrection either, which just makes NA/EU all the more confusing) In Act 2, as far as Jinsoyun's plans went, Lusung essentially doomed the world when he didn't kill Yunhwa, so she punished him for disobeying her. That's really all there is to it. The irony of her punishment though, is that Lusung betrayed her and did what he did for power, so she gave him more power (as she previously promised him) by turning him into a demon. Seeing as he's in the netherworld though, he couldn't handle it, and more or less died. While he's dead, as seen in the cutscene, he's approached by the Demon Emperor who turns him into the Raven King. Since Lusung is already dead, there's not really a problem anymore, so the Demon Emperor ressurects him, and he shows up 3-4 years after he "died" (since you don't age while you're dead, but the living world moves on). tldr; the Raven King/Lusung's transformation has nothing to do with Jinsoyun. Lusung became a demon because of the Demon Emperor.
  11. Julia, Zulia.. or Yulia?

    Not just KR though, she is Yuran in every version besides NA/EU. Which makes the alteration not only stranger overall, but is also more prone to cause confusion, since players from all regions will be familiar with the character and name of Yuran no matter what translation they have used. Even people that have just been interested in the game prior to NA/EU but haven't actually played it would be more likely to recognize Yuran rather than Yura. It's the exact same thing here now with Julia/Zulia. Nonsencial changes to the names and terms that end up causing confusion in the community, especially to new players. In this case it's not something that I really personally mind either, but it has more negative effects than positive ones. And still, for some reason, they keep on doing it. And the explanation for the change was just weird. How on earth does Yuran sound like urine?
  12. Julia, Zulia.. or Yulia?

    KR: 주리아 (Julia/Juria) CN: 茱莉叶 (Zhu lì yè) TW: 宙黎兒 (Zhòu lí er) JP: ジュリア (Juria) RU: Джулия (Julia) NA/EU: Zulia EN1 translation: Juria "Lusung" has two names, his birth name (Yoosung in KR) and an adoptive name (Musung in KR). Got changed to Yusung and Lusung. Gubong/Ga Gante is Geo Geo Bung in KR. Jinsoyun (진소윤) isn't Jin Soyeon (진소연), but Jin Seo Yeon (진서연) in KR. They are not the same names, and have very different meanings. Many characters also had their surnames removed completely (like with Juwol whose KR name is Dang Yeo-Wol), or they just got mashed up with the given names (Do Chun-Poong became Dochun). NCSoft explained themselves with that it was too hard for western players to pronounce, so they changed it because of phonetics. But the result is a very weird translation, and much of the meaning/symbolism of the original is gone. "Mu" for example means nothing or nothingness, while "Yoo" means "something", symbolising that Musung became nothing after seeking revenge. Changing his name to Lusung just makes it weird to pronounce, and the symbolism is lost (especially weird for Scandinavian players since "lus" means lice). Jin means "one to take revenge" or "one to pay back". Seo means cotton, while Yeon means beauty, so the meaning behind her name matches the character pretty well. So / 소, however, can be partly translated as cow. Imo, the weirdest name change overall is definitely Mushin, which is his actual title in KR (meaning "God of Martial Arts"). His birth name is Chun Jin Gwon. NCSoft basically turned his title into his actual name, and on top of it gave him another title to match "Mushin". So in NA/EU his name is more or less "god of martial arts, the god of martial arts".
  13. zaiwei

    In CN Kangryu is translated to Jiangliu because of phonetics, but the meaning/"name" remains the same, only that it's in Chinese. TW and JP is the same as far as I can remember. In that aspect, "Zaiwei" is just gibberish, and something ncsoft made up. Wouldn't exactly call Gunwon City more crowded, atleast not much, but it definitely is very beautiful. The Kun city in Seorak too for that matter when we get there. While I dislike the new Zaiwei for several reasons, it is a hell of a lot more practical. The old Kangryu was just simply too big and with too little space to actually get around. As a result players got shafted into the few tiny areas with banks and such, which didn't to wonders for the fps. Not to mention the insane fps drops during questing, even if there very little people around.. Even with dragonstreams you had to walk around alot to get to your actual location, which naturally took time since the city was just that massive. You also weren't teleported around during the main quest, and just getting to all the dragonstreams could easily take an hour. Even though the old Kangryu is absolutely more beautiful and an overall more interesting leveling area (since 30%~ of the main quest took part there, and to boot you had some really, really good sidequests there), as far as practicality goes what we have now really is the better option.
  14. Question about the translations for content

    But the "fan translations" are official translations as published by Team Bloodlust. Even if you look beside the EN1 translations, Team Bloodlust has released a fair amount of english stuff that fan translators have based their translations on. Take the official B&S OST for example. It’s "The Morning of Crimson Peak", not "The Morning of Heavens Reach". It’s "Greenwoods Thieves’ Guild", not "Lumang Syndicate’s Guild". "Scar of the Black Flower" not "Mark of the Black Rose". You can’t possibly claim that the translations Team Bloodlust themselves release is unofficial.
  15. Question about the translations for content

    @Grimoir This isn't correct. See, NCWest is handed the direct Korean-to-English script by Team Bloodlust, translated by TB/Plaync. And in this EN1 translation, Bloodshade Harbor was indeed Bloodshark. Similarly, Sogun's Lament is really supposed to be Snow Jade Palace of Grief, E. Fleet Supply Chain is supposed to be Sea Snake Supply Base, Zaiwei City is supposed to be Kangryu, etc etc. Most fan-translators tend to translate as closely as possible to the original. In NCWest's case, their translators have taken huge liberties. It's what the "fan-translations" uses, sure, but there's a reason for it after all. It's the original names, unedited.
  16. The whole thing with too many factions being the main reason for the change is just misinformation spread from the Dojo. It was an annoyance, sure, but the main reason was Chinese gaming laws forbidding the pc from being classified as "evil", which naturally caused issues. One of the other reasons was that at the time the average Chinese computers were deemed to not be able to run Silverfrost properly, because KR initially had so demaning graphics, which is why the areas was revamped as well. Light/Dark and Wulin/Huntian might have been one of the issues, but it was far from being the main reason of the change, as it was easy to fix. On-Topic: As others have said, it would have been fine if this was something that only affected later Act 7 content and beyond, but the having all content with her be of the new outfit leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't care about boobs, but I have no love for censorship. It also feels like a very weird decision considering Julia's been in the game for so long, and just now Team Bloodlust is deciding to censor her.
  17. Why BnS is awesome

    The Ebondrake are not a tiny cult, not at all. They've been around since before Naryu, and have members over all across the world. I've begun to skip a lot of dialogue in EU, but have ncwest really scrapped that much?! Geez... They also have a substantial backing in the Cloud/Stratus Empire, as the Empress Dowager (the regent) is one of their supporters. They are also mentioned/referred to, or have otherwise been foreshadowed, since around Act 2 (the Tyrian cult is also a part of the Ebondrake. a... branching faction of them if you wish. This got scrapped in NA/EU). But in our version we never really hear about them until the end of Act 4, which yeah makes them feel super forced, not to mention cliche. The bad dialogue they're given doesn't really help with that either. As far as I remember, this is taken up again in Act 7. Just wait and see. (don't count on an accurate translation tho :p) Dark chi comes and goes as it please, and can also be conjured. Small gates with dark chi/demons opens seemingly opens easily. But the dark gate can only be opened by a heavens mandate, and it is the only way the demon emperor can pass through. ...not sure if this actually answers anything Originally you didn’t actually defeat Jin Seo Yeon. Seo Yeon was pushed out of her demon form (probably due to Biwol/Jiwan’s arcanum/legacy/whatever. her body rejected it. that’s just a hypothesis, but i really doubt the pc was legitimately able to defeat her demon form due to the power gap), but the fight was interrupted. Then the rewrite happened, Team Bloodlust got lazy with their storytelling, and just made you “defeat” Jin Seo Yeon since the story had to continue somehow (and since Seo Yeon’s character had been rewritten so harshly, they couldn’t use the original ending. mushin was also supposed to live, so theres that). But because Act 5/6 had already been released at the time, they didn’t bother making it consistent with the new Act 4, which is why the pc isn’t op later on. The pc also wasn’t nearly as overpowered as they are now in the current storyline, and if Yuran/Mushin hadn’t interrupted the fight, “realistically” he/she would have gotten their ass kicked by Jin Seo Yeon. So this is really just the result of Team Bloodlust being lazy. Not all that surprising, as the entire rewrite was poorly done. On-Topic though; - The soundtrack is absolutely gorgeous. Locations as well. - Art style/graphics overall. - The upgrade system gets a lot of hate, but I really like it. It might take some grinding, but it's much better than constant rng. It's refreshing, honestly. - The bopae/outfit system.
  18. Is the storyline still censored?

    Nothing has really changed in the way NCWest is handling the story. They haven't altered entire questlines (like with Brightstone) since beta if that is what you're asking, no, but they still continue to water down the story by removing lots of content. The most evident when it comes to this is probably how different all the supporting characters are. Characters that are likeable and fairly interesting, are rewritten into being mostly rude, disrespectful and very unlikeable. Many npcs are very different from their original KR/CN etc counterpart, so if you are familiar with other regions you will notice lots of difference. The... uhm.. "westernation" also hasn't really stopped in how NCWest continue in changing names (e.g Saojang becomes Sandy. I wish I was kidding), adding memes and so on. Small side note; I'm not saying NCWest hasn't changed story/lore content since beta (because they have), but up until now they haven't changed as much as they did with Brightstone. The way I see it, is that they change a lot of "small" things (that aren't really small, but just don't have any bearing on the very main plotline) in the story, but leave the overall plot alone. Like mentioned earlier, in changing chararcter personalities, lore/backstory, etc. Makes sense? Gubong didn't die in the original story. We still had that conversation with him in the epilogue.
  19. how to get to Windrest the new Location?

    Finish Act 5 and you'll receive a quest. Talk with some people in Bamboo village, and you'll be teleported to Windrest.
  20. Shadow of Innocents

    That isn't Windrest, that's a new continent we'll get with Act 7. Windrest is a fairly tiny island, similar to Heaven's Reach. There's not really much to do there, except for a few dailies who gives tokens that you can turn in for items.
  21. Most populated server?

    Windrest I think on EU.
  22. Why I think the new ending is genius.

    I very much agree with Inugami. I think it’s useless to try to compare both storylines, because their respective "starting points" is so vastly different. Lore, character motivations, and characterisation in particular. It is one of the things I dislike the most about the new story, just because it paints so many characters in a very different light than in the original. I wouldn't have minded it as much if the new story had expanded upon the npcs and their motives, but rewriting as harshly as ncsoft did is not something I’m fond of. The villains/antagonists suffered the most from this, as pretty much all of them had their personalities/goals etc shifted around drastically. Jin Seo Yeon, a character that wanted to avenge her master and destroy one of the biggest threats to the world… now ends up wanting to destroy the world? What? It just doesn’t make sense (in comparison), and it *cricket*s with her characterisation. Even worse, it makes forgiving her make no sense, and that alone makes the ending seem forced and out of place. Team Bloodlust turned one of their best characters, and a wonderful antagonist, into something out of a saturday cartoon. And then NCWest comes along and *cricket*s up her characterisation even more. But that's another subject, so.... You also have the same problem with Mushin; a guy whose end goal is to kill the demon emperor, now ends up joining the Ebondrake Cult. Again, it messes with his character, and just doesn’t make sense. And even if this is something that’ll get resolved in future acts (which it most likely will), it’s still a very confusing decision to make. While it is nice that we're going to see more of him later on, killing him off at Floating Altar would have atleast resolved some of the problems the new story have made. That said, the new story has much better pacing; and you get to see more of side characters like the Eight Masters, which is always a good thing. The whole thing with capturing Yunsang/entering Zaiwei is way more fleshed out, and much better executed. Replacing Hwang Bo Seok with Yu Chun was probably the best thing Team Bloodlust could have done considering their position. While Yu Chun is a very different character than Hwang, they did manage to write him in in the story well enough, and he doesn't particurlary feel like filler (considering that we're probably not going to see him again). The first half of Silverfrost floats very well, and is written good, but afterwards it kinda... stops? When you get into Zaiwei, Birchwood, and Northern Snow Fields the story gets sort of clunky, like it's not really going anywhere. Might just be me though. Personally though, I very strongly prefer the original storyline/ending above the new one. That is the Blade & Soul I fell in love with, and while the new storyline certainly has its merits, and does some aspects better, the old just simply does storytelling better.
  23. Hwang Bo Seok and Yu Chun isn't the same character. Yu Chun just replaced Hwang in the new storyline.
  24. She didn't want to destroy the world in the original, she just wanted to kill Mushin. That's why she ordered Lusung to kill Yunhwa, so that while the dark gate would open during the ritual, the demon emperor would be unable to descend to the earth because there wouldn't be a compatible vessel.