Astarae

It would have been more pertinent if done w/a non tank class like a GS.

And I watched his vids .... for a while. Namely because, I can't watch 5 vids and then go do 5 dungeons. I'm lucky if I can remember part of 1 vid and do that...then get kicked for not knowing the rest. And there goes the videos helpfulness. But I do try to learn what works best in for what I use in the dungeon. But they took that out. So why use training room for anything now? My FM is stuck at 5 points left, cuz they jumped me from press '3' , twice and you are elevated to next lesson, to now press 1111513141. -- but only when they light is over them for < .1 seconds. Sorry, but there was no build-up in skill to get to following that many buttons aligned with a moving light+sound. There was nothing. Huge skip in skill. I can do the sequence, but I never am able to synchronize with the game's lights+beeps. I can't even predict when to press the first key, let alone the rest -- especially when the timing varies. You call that training? Jumping from pressing a few buttons with your own timing, to pressing 2-3 times as many buttons at the computer's timing? That's not training, that's abusive. So far, I've yet to run into an FM who has completed their training -- other than to learn that the training room is worthless. You can't even train with the same weapons as you use in the dungeon. YOU HEAR ME NCWEST/SOFT? Why would you disable 'Auto' (what you all simple, but its anything but) in the dungeon section of training? They could have had more than 2 modes too. They could even now -- adding back a 'classic' mode that reverts the dungeon mechs to exactly what they were when they were released, so anyone can compare the diffs. It would be educational, at the very least. As for 4 women dungeons -- I often do that today. You just go with 4 total. Some dungeons I'll take 1 or 2 other people. Only remember 1 time recently when had to recruit again -- and that was when someone had dropped out (another prob going with low-level types -- they are more likely to drop out if they don't get through it the 1st or 2nd time). You don't have to take 6. I try to solo dungeons every once in a while. My limit is about NS, though I am finding out on things like CS, and EL, my FM (2 levels below my GS) can complete those dungeons solo when my gunner can't because of how badly NCx has gimped gunners -- slower on everything, recovery, speed, CD...they over did it. My FM can even out damage my gunner on many or most longer battles -- that's pathetic. Oh, Haven't noticed that in Brood chamber, but then I'm not allowed to have the advanced equip either for various reasons (too low, too high, too whatever).

Neither is programming in assembly language -- so that should be required of everyone before they can use a computer! And how many know assembly language? <.001%. Your point is mechanics are easy for those who know how and have an affinity. For those that don't they not only may not ever learn, they may not be capable of learning. Assembly is the same language everyone uses every day, but they use simplifiers known as higher level languages -- and some just use "GUI"s. Computers only speak binary. Computers were intended for those who like to learn binary and assembly. What, you don't agree? I'll bet you are using higher level abstractions to tell the computer what to do. I'll bet you've never touched a line of assembly or developed a network protocol... Telling people that they need to learn the lowest level grunt work to work on or play in what they find fun won't get you very far. I'm sure you've taken what I said to heart. Different people have different levels of expertise in different areas. Not everyone is a physicist, or computer scientist, or mechanic. Thinking that everyone should be able to learn what is easy for you is so unreasonable. Think about what you are saying? You remember Stephen Hawking? He wrote books with his mouth because his fingers no longer worked. Considered one of the smartest physicists of our time. And you would tell him he had to perform the mechs without any assisting technology like even a macro keyboard? Don't the high level players doing mechs and pvp call those who use such programs "cheaters"... Why shouldn't it be that those who use their own natural talents in doing mechs be called cheaters? It is certainly ridiculous to expect someone like Stephen H. to perform the mechs to the standards of the elites, but that's what we have today -- those who use assisting tech are called cheaters and get banned, while those who are natural wonders at rote-memorization and replay consider themselves gods. Except what are they memorizing? 99 times out of 100, they are watching someone else's video and memorizing someone else's answer. In school, memorizing someone else's answer and using that on a test was called *cheating* -- yet here, they are lauded while everyone else is kicked to the curb. NCSoft is training the pros to be cheaters (not to mention gamblers). Of course there's the most basic elements missing from this game that are present in dnd type games (aren't present in pinball type games) -- a saving throw. With alterations for level and items. Any time there's a insta death, players should get a minimum 6% chance saving throw with adjustments for level, items and class. Doesn't exist. Bosses shouldn't run the same pattern each time either. Get rid of pinball mechs and insta-death (unless you wanna give it to players too, but that's boring). I know this is likely falling on deaf ears, but if you can tell me that this game is likely to survive for another 10 years in its current form in the US, then fine, you got the winning formula already. But it's boring. Because for many, there is no chance. For those at the top there is, but only if they pay out enough. How boring is that?

They had to -- they kept having needed items in those dungeons, but no one wanted to do them! It was such a pain when you needed a ring from Necro or such...but it was so old and so much below everyone, that no one would go. Took me near a month just to get a piece from there cuz I couldn't solo 3 spots at once. Even 2 people couldn't do it -- me and a friend tried, but the things that needed protecting were too far apart. And it *wasn't* because it was hard -- just that you had to protect 3 things far apart and no way to get fast between them. If IF becomes a bottleneck then they might, but really , right now, it's on the list of dailies every other day or so, so it's not hard to get 1-2 people at least. The same reasons aren't there. But if they take it off the dailies and move dailies up to the current top 5 or such...it might be a prob, but it also depends on how often items drop. I still can't do CS since they increased the difficulty -- and it is always the timer. 2nd CS boss isn't a problem and I can at least do HM now whereas I couldn't after the buff, but it isn't easy and it isn't fast. FWIW before they were buffed, I could do both HM and CS Solo and did every time they were on dailies, and both went down in under 20-30 secs at most. And I lost over 200 orbs when they redid the dungeons.

Don't pay attention to the elite commenters -- I tried 4 solo rounds on him today and only managedd to get him to 5% at best.... and all 4 rounds went through 2 dragon bloods. But he'd eventually kill me on some electric grab....and dragon bloods didn't work. Finally called in a few more people, but really 1 more person and I could have done it. I find that true on many dungeons -- by myself especially on gunner with 0 defense... *ouch* *ouch* *ouch*.

Poor you, no one will train them or take them on training runs -- even in clans many will snub you -- I asked for help on new dungeons and was denied until, they said, i "knew" the mechs (which meant performed flawlessly)...like that would ever happen not doing them -- and these were clan members...talk about brains full of manure... Now, I do almost nothing but what you'd call charity runs and carry. Sometimes I have people up to lvl 22, but more often it's a party of people 18-12. While my one main is hm22, and other is a rather pregnant hm20 (really about the same or better in a dungeon than my hm22 with my hm20 ending up at the head of that damage pack over 50% of the time. And yeah, I need to improve alot if I want things like the bloodsport outfit, since the teams that are doing that usually have a high person of hm26/28 and more often lows around 22. And they've been together for a while. So the changes I need to do a group like that are about 2x-3x the equip and damage I have now, since those guys do, easily, about 2-3x my damage.

Yeah, i wouldn't doubt it. Which is why when I got to my first F8 stage over a year ago, (and before that) I caught on that gems were instant AP above and beyond anything else and that AP was a general damage multiplier. So I focused early-on in gems. Had guilded-tri's in all 6 spots (was a bit easier then) and was able to collect Hongmoon gem powder much more easily than today. So just the opposite of what you said happened. I'm sure they meant to be excluding me if they had a brain, but they asked for AP (or they asked for your weap to be 'xx') So gems and weap were order of business and I did get accepted -- and I either learned fast, or felt over my head and stopped going to some dungeons as much until I had progressed more. Dunno about you, but I was a bit insulted about the guy claiming you wanted a carry. Can't say for sure about you, but I know I didn't, and for him to be so sure, told me more about what he thought about others in that situation was a reflection of what he'd be doing in the same (or had done in similar). Reminds me of some idiot in a party I took into IForge, and some guy gave me grief for having a high weap and not doing 3-4x damage, I truthfully responded that I have a hard time doing damage when I'm tanking, (he was the only tank class in our group), I continued "maybe if you'd learn your class I could do mine". He shutup and left immediately. In contrast, I had some tank who did know their class and even though they only did 300k, I did a consistent 800K+ (finished at about 320/850) and I didn't see the boss turn his attention on me once. Now that was good tanking (he was also about HM16-17 to my 20). The guy who had complained about me earlier was HM21 -- not that levels mean ALOT, but they are indicative...

And how many people have you trained to go through that dungeon w/you? Just curious. Had someone invite anyone to a group in the theatre dungeon (that's how good my memory is -- I don't remember the name -- I'd have to go look it up). That said they'd tank and no mechs required. We cleared it on the first run. I won't go and get yelled at for not being able to memorize trivia. We did it twice. OTOH, he switched to Brood. He never said anything about that. And when he got there he started recruiting people for mech roles... The ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤! (really sorta laughing about it TBH). In brood I had been there before and remember trying to deflect the balls. I kept getting knocked over just before the balls would come out and as a slowpoke gunner, of course I couldn't get up in time. They switched to other configs, but no one could block the balls reliably, even if they could do it the 1st time. Why? Because no one can practice that dungeon on their own, and they can't practice it in a group who make snide comments about it being embarrassing. On top of that, they are told to go get some second class weapon so when they come in their DPS is 1/2 to 1/5 the top players. That is noted and when groups form that need DPS, who wants the 2nd class players? Or from the other perspective, who wants to always be in groups where they feel like they are being carried by the others. They feel bad enough that many stop trying -- if people are wondering why the player population has dropped by 50% in the past year, that's a strong reason right there -- with the other part being axing all the quests and dungeons in the starting areas of the dungeon. It is not enough just to level up most people equipment. They need practice on that equipment as well. They need to practice in their class and run lower dungeons with others at a similar level. FWIW, when people are on I usually invite people if no one else is doing the dungeons I need. I don't ask for equipment level and don't ask that they know mechs. Average recruit time is about 30 seconds. it can go alot higher than that, but most often it fills up pretty fast. And I get people down as low as HM12 with less than raven weaps where it is there first time. If someone messes up, I usually chime in about how it took me forever to learn those moves -- and I'm not making it up. It did take me forever to learn alot of those moves and I still fail, so......at least I can hope that others won't grow up to be as paranoid about some of these dungeons.

I haven't seen 1 Longgui group look for a minimum AP. I see virtually all of them ask for some type of Aransu weapon -- I think high point is A6. I've seen a few taking A3 and above, but have seen more wanting A9 and above and very few (less than A3 numbers) who want GC3 or above. Ranking the demand for CG3, A9, A6, and A3, I'd say, maybe, out of 100 runs, # of runs asking for a specific weapon level or above using High->low order (these are a based on my feel or intuition based on what I've seen, but... ): 6% for CG3+, 28% for A9+, 55% for A6+ and maybe 11% for A3+. Of the A3's forming for MSP4-6(including 1-6), I think most of the time it was because the organizer had A3 and they were usually, also recruiting/asking for higher DPS types (cuz they knew A3 was really a bit too weak, in general). Note that the weap, most likely, was presumed to go with "balanced accessories" -- like a GC3 or A9 with everything else 'fresh from story', probably wouldn't go over too well. But so far, I haven't seen any group advertising that they'd take Raven weaps. Of course if you did have c9 ear/ring and other accessories that would more likely be found on someone with a GC weap, you might hurt their brain, but might also be able to talk your way in on some. Others will just shut-down cuz they weren't programmed** to handle such a case. **-subtle humor, but also thinking of the line "i'm sorry, but I am not programmed to respond in that area"*** for something they'd never seen before and didn't know how to proceed. *** - Star Trek, TOS: I Mudd. If you were aiming at this weekend, it would be difficult, shelling out for a carry to get something like the Sealed Raven King's Selection Chest, but for the Queen/Aransu. At the celestial level, it's like Sealed Celestial Emperor's Reward Selection Chest, but can't find one for the aransu/queen level, so don't know exact name, at least for a start, beyond that, too many options to think about, but even getting your weap up to A6, would be costly if possible. As for stats...you didn't say (did you?) what class you were, but I tend to focus on AP+crit+[evasion*]+crit-dam. I focus on all in so much that I wouldn't want to ignore any of them, but some are more important, for me, than others. * - evasion - some say that's only a pvp thing, but if you have a class that's had its speed nerfed by 25% or more compared to other classes, and/or that gets knocked over by a boss breathing hard -- like gunners, its one of the few things that can help lower damage. While blocking helps, IF you can block, you still take about 25%-40% of the original damage. Only evade (on successful evade) gives you zero (0) damage and you don't have to try to get something timing based like on block, it will just work, or not, and when it does -- 0 damage. I also try to put some of my HM points in speed -- even with a speed boost of 25% my gunner still gets out-run in most situations by faster running classes. So far the only clear advantage has been in walk speed, but I'm pretty sure you don't get a 25% increase in speed in most situations. I tend to think its a bug, but dreading the stupid comments about how gunners are already so 'op' (is that why there are virtually none of them in the top 10 of any fight area?). I get that it was that way in the past, but you really might want to update your internal information. But it could be that they only give the speed boosts in PvP -- which would be as bad as only allowing a talent to work in PvP. Also you said "I don't do any Raids, I've never done any as I am guildless": 1) I think you meant "clanless" 2) there are PUG's (Pick-Up-Group) that are organized extemporaneously that do VT, but they usually want people who know what they are doing (which is why I mentioned looking for the carry option). Good Luck... -A

At the very least they should put back the quests that had item drops as rewards. If they wanted to show a bit of honoring players, they should put back all the quests that had either clothing drops or accomplishments tied to them. Either that, or put them in as additional option drops for quests elsewhere, like mushins or such. Having them available for pvp-chips when it takes expensive equipment to compete or play is adding salt to the wounds from the ripped out local-flavor quests along with the 80g price tag on items at the "accomplishment" awards vendor in Zaiwei, who was supposed to offer you things inexpensively after you completed accomplishments or accomplishment levels.

I have yet to receive any heroic purple stones purchased from ANY source other than a RNG one, and I have purchased 4 radiant's from that merchant almost every day until recently when I have only purchased 0-2 due to their low value. I purchased a an ascendant from that merchant maybe once or twice when I didn't have any, but after I got all purples in the ascendants from RNG sources, I stopped. From what I've read elsewhere, the chances on RNG items are higher when they are first released, dropping to minuscule values as time goes on. They try to get the world out or advertising by early wins, but then drop chances for good stuff to near zero. This has been my experience from what I've noticed, and has been very noticeable in the $70/box (50 chance) boxes. Also I have purchased 1-2 of the ascensions from the merchant of mundania but the rest have been radiants as I learned what a waste it was there. *I heard that early on they put 1 purple in the ascension boxes to get the word out, but no more since then*. (*- I'd take that statement with a grain of sarcasm if I were you, but I wouldn't completely discount the RNG-chance of its truthiness). What's real sad/pathetic is how the *merchant of wonders* has been hitting skid-row lately with only 'wonders' being offered were small amounts of mundane items (soul/moon/sacred/elys). Next he'll be offering healing tonics and dumplings.

Don't take my willingness to have strong feelings arguing a point meaning that I have issues with *you* as a person. Please. I realize most people get very distressed about disagreement, but *generally* I don't. Most of the time, I don't remember people's names as I usually pay more attention to what they are saying/writing and how they are saying it. Now admittedly, I start to recognize some people by their writing style , but ask me to remember their name? That takes alot more time. Besides -- actual grudges take too much energy -- but arguing about something you want -- that makes it's own energy coming out of passion or something I care about. I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't have emotions and feelings about some of this... However, the behaviors I see coming out of the wrong people having or holding power -- makes for a good case for them never holding power in the real world -- unfortunately, often they do and I don't see things getting better in the immediate future.

What? Video games existed long before RNG...it's only been in the past 10 years or so that people could play these on line. Elder Scrolls 4 -- offline at $30 new, and $10 now -- from 20 years ago. ES5 -- came out about 5 years ago with RNG/pay to lose. Before players were able to make extensions and their own content. With RNG,l all that's been sewn up into sterile packaging where users get no say. If the outfits in BnS were all RNG, they'd lose alot of players -- since with this game, what is "win"? There is no win, there are only costumes and pvp and alot of players don't like pvp. Without a wider appeal, who wants to get into eSports? About the same number of people interested in getting into regular sports. Maybe you are hitting close to the mark though -- in that maybe todays youth aren't as interested in games -- just opportunities to engage in esports or pvp. But in games like oblivion -- it was real different than BnS...here players get off on dealing out hurt and grief, whereas in previous games, players got off on helping other players and providing used extensions. But things moved to everything being about money and competition and the fun has suffered accordingly. As for those figures of $80 via gambling vs. $50 guaranteed? Try more like $500-$5000 on the gambling side. Remember NCSoft's payoff %boxes are supposedly <1%. So 100-1000 times higher via the gambling route.

Too bad there's no training room that allows you setup conditions as they would exist in the dungeon or on a raid and test various combinations. No...the game has worked to disallow users exploring and testing things themselves. You can't test your combos among various options and certainly can't check how much damage is done using the same "firing pattern" between one setup and the next. If it only came from individual player research, it might be interesting, but its not -- it becomes handed down "lore" where anyone who tests or tries things out that are different is ridiculed and/or penalized. Just like when I wanted to explorer in ET and was told I was insane, and kicked from a clan for such heretical ideas. So what if we didn't have videos to watch and memorize? So what if no one knew what was out there? But people get very upset if they haven't seen "the video" showing them how to run a dungeon, or even -- do their rotation. How is that better? It was in rising trolls, that my questions got met with silence or derision. Can you explain how that is a better way to learn? I'm from the school that likes to read game-guides and learn tips from the game writers/developers. In this game, learning from others becomes toxic -- as others have pointed out in numerous threads -- they get trolled, or lied to, or told wrong information because people think it is funny. I don't like situations where small numbers of people hold power and lord it over others. I much prefer dynamics where such people are not allowed to hold power over others -- either by having an advanced character or pretending to have true information. At every point, look at the consequences of something being freely available or held by a few insiders. I see far more people abusing such circumstances than helping others. Acquiring such information as part of the game can not be evaluated in a vacuum, but must be seen in terms of how it affects others in the game. Is it divisive or does it bring in a sense of helping others? Anything that contributes to people holding power-over others where those holding the power use it to oppress others, needs to be seen as part of the cause of that dynamic.

You said -- that the game shouldn't teach [tell] how to work your class rotation: Astara: Yes...it should. A rotation is the most basic thing you need to know about your class. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hanuku: This isn't really part of the thread... If you are putting in "BASIC" info, then in the training room, it SHOULD teach you the basics of your class -- specifically your "rotations". This is my first point (not so well said, but hopefully direct enough to get what I mean across...(sigh) How to play your class is among the most basic things a character *needs* to know. This isn't meant to detract from anything else you said...but when we talk about putting in basic stuff, that has to include rotations. My, perhaps poorly constructed, analogous example has to do with a specific training exercise for FM's that has to be one of the most worthless bits of training -- as it involves synchronizing your timing to the server doing things that is worthless when you factor in lag time and the fact that you can't synchronize to a randomly changing ping-time, especially not to a sub-second resolution as displayed by lights flickering across the needed keys. So they teach you *some things*, that might be useful if it has anything to do with anything -- and adding salt to the wound -- they don't break it down to explain how you can even start to synchronize. There are tons of other things where they don't give enough info, I agree, and there are tons of places where the wording is ambiguous at best, and downright misleading at worst. When you are talking about what gems you get out of crafting, I had nearly the exact same issue in *buying* "the wrong" gems -- because I didn't get that I couldn't upgrade them. That they looked exactly the same -- didn't alert me to the fact that I couldn't use them in upgrades (which had been the sole reason I had bought them). Later, in upgrading an accessory, It said 2 things. This item gives you a 6% bonus on your bullet storm. Then later, it also said that this item enhances way of the undertaker (which in gunner class had more in common with 'shadow' vs. destruction which has more to do with 'fire'). What I didn't realize and what the text didn't say was that it ***only*** was good for enhancing powers of those following the undertaker path -- which, if I had known, would have let me know I couldn't use it!!! But that wasn't the case. While I was able, to revert that and go with something for my 'path', I was also told that it would be a one time exception, which also really annoys me -- since it was the lack of sufficient text or hints from NCSoft/West, that would have let me know it was the wrong choice for me. So its NOT just the lack of basic info (which is a serious problem) but also when they do have info, it may be misleading and NC'x' doesn't even take responsibility for the misleading text, but instead you are made to feel like it was your fault for not getting it right. Thanks! And at the end of my last note, I was commenting on how so often I feel under time pressure and constraints -- where if I don 't move fast, I lose "something", so it's rare that I feel I have the time to do full research -- compounding that problem is that info you might find from 2-3 years ago is likely dreadfully outdated. Hope I explained a bit better about what I meant.... Astara

Yeah, i've so looked for this as well -- but like so many others, they feel a need to lock others out from some of these things, making them "permanently deficient" in the cool outfit department. :-(

Yes...it should. A rotation is the most basic thing you need to know about your class. There is a 'training room'[sic] that lets you learn how to press a button: "Here, notice your rm-killemdead button is on your right mouse button. Now practice pressing your rm button against your training dummy: click on right-mouse, (1), and now click again...(2)! Congratulations, here is your reward... vs. here's an advanced technique... press the buttons you see on the screen (LM-RM-LM-RM-4-LM-RM-LM-RM-shift-c). After the light goes on you have .9 seconds to follow up but only when they light up. You have a .1 second window to press each one, but only after they light up, but pushing down any button will invalidate the the whole sequence." The above never gets used again and is not part of a dungeon rotation -- even "FFXIII, Lightning returns" where you had to do something like execute a block within a 120ms window to execute a perfect block (or 150ms if you had defeated the 2nd hardest boss in the game) and got the 30ms bonus in hard-mode). Of course in FF, those were local timings, so 150ms was a real 150ms, not 150ms adjusted by your variable server RTT (RoundTripTime). Now, do you know something considered most basic to your class -- your rotation? or how each of your skills work in in combination with other classes' skills? nope. How about how when you are simpleton mode but are told your attempt to use some key happens to be same slot / key as party sheath and is killing everyone randomly, so please turn off party sheath -- which you do until next boss, where you are yelled at for not casting party sheath to save everyone, but can't reconfig now, because you are in battle. Later even with sheath on, you can't use it if you are in SIMPLE mode: Of course everyone know know that from their training time with SIMPLE mode that to cast frost sheath you have to switch into frost mode which is not possible in SIMPLE mode which is non-configurably bound to your right-mouse, thus disabling any frost mode skills. Of course with all the practice in the training room you'd know that, right?....er...oh *snap*! forgot -- can't train w/actual combat options in the "training"[sic] room. If more people had trained with it, there would likely have been more call for making a SIMPLE-mode attack just a another attack key rather than a separate mode. Instead, they are caught by the mob pursuing them, killed by the flames from the forest fire on their tail or, in BnS, more likely, kicked from the group for being "afk" while they were looking up whatever it was that they needed. Uh...yeah...no time pressures in this game...

I haven't found the secret agent outfit either, and putting outfits behind a pvp wall when they were pve really is poor form. I wanted that outfit and tried so many times -- then they killed the quest and locked up the outfit away from where PvE players could get it. Um...guess they are going to release it right about the time the bloodlust outfit comes out in F10....

Well, Agree and Agree -- how boring!

Update: when I got back into the game -- friends list empty again.... No wonder I have problems making friends in this game w/friends list getting zeroed every new start.

An update on this -- mine started working when 2 people asked to be friends -- I approved, but nothing happened for a while -- but that's because they weren't on -- cuz when they got on, they appeared. And here's what else I noticed. Was talking w/someone about this in chat, and they complained that they never knew when I was on because my indicators in 'friends' always indicated I was offline. So we thought I'd might try to friend him again -- and i got message that I was already friends w/him (even though he wasn't on my list since I lost the list). I told him to try unfriending me and redo it, he did -- and then he could see me, but he still wasn't on my list. so had him try again, but let me invite him this time. Was able to invite, but still couldn't see him -- but later he changed characters, and when he came in on his new character, I got message he was on line -- and checked and he was now on my list. So you might try getting someone who has you on their list to drop you, then try inviting them again, and then if it doesn't appear, have them bounce back to lobby and re-enter. I don't know if my list will still have anyone on them when I go back in (as lost connection a while ago) and couldn't relog in -- wierd... Anyway, just thought I'd update this w/my symptoms...the fact that game still thought I was friends w/somone who hd been on my list seemed significant -- i.e still there, but just not on my list...

Doing 2-3X damage isn't about the gear. That was partly my point -- they can do more damage than me with the same gear. I need a higher gear level to do the same damage as many people at a lower gear level because of other factors. Almost all clans are the wrong clans because they are clans (cliques) with established rules and ways of doing things that usually don't fit everyone. Considering I haven't made it through dogboy , I have no idea what you mean I got kicked from last clan for trying to get a group to do ET w/me in first week it came out -- not because I was expecting to finish anything, but just explore and see how good/bad it was. Got message in clan chat when I was in middle of a weekly run asking if I anyone might interested in a BT -- I said yes, but not just then -- would pulse when I got out. When I did, maybe 20-30 minutes later, They said 'uh, we finished BT about 20 minutes ago and are just finishing up weeklies". Oh...well that means you're free and can come explore ET w/me. No answer.... I go on ... I suspect not, which means it's the perfect time to go check it out!....no response.... Then someone response that it is the latest content and much harder than even TT. (I'd heard earlier in faction chat that ET wasn't as hard because it didn't have as much party-killing mechs or something like that -- dunno). They said that I hadn't even run the VT w/them or TT at all and I wanted to do ET? -- yeah, I just wanna go check it out and see what comes up and how far we get... and what it looks like. So how bout it? Wanna go? "You've been kicked from the clan"..... Just because they hadn't been able to memorize the mechs so they could lord it over those who can't memorize...rt... I've yet to find such a beast...some said they "used to", but usually when I come in they don't have room and they want parses that I won't do because they are worthless to show how you do in the dungeon. But only clans doing TT were hardcore enough to not want to help you if you hadn't already memorized the TT mechs and had the execution down perfectly (nothing wrong with that expectation, I 'm sure!). I said above...the exact gear isn't the point -- its what I do w/it. I could have all the Celest gear, but if I only perform at a VT level, that's it (that's an extreme example, BTW), to do TT, I'd need something better to contribute on an equal level. I can show you my gear, but it won't make a difference, as you will advise me to do some other than what I can do that would work for you. Nvrtheless... I have two mains rt now -- my oldest is a gunner: https://bnstree.com/character/na/Astará While my younger main, which I tend to play more this year was a reason for getting kicked from a clan I'd been in for 8 months. They got new leadership who didn't like me having my equipment and not being better than I was so didn't like me working on multiple characters when they felt I wasn't good enough on my first. So they said mains only, and kicked my FM, but I told them I was playing my FM more... But they wanted me on my gunner (not that they were using me in any raids) and told me it was too slow in making my choice, but I could make a choice then to quit the clan or be kicked and have a good life. Ooph. So that char is at: https://bnstree.com/character/na/Astara FM It is lame when my oldest character had been waiting for TT for over a year but kept being locked out because my DPS wasn't as good as others and especially not for my equipment. Have even had more than one accuse me of having bought my account -- just because I know how to level up, doesn't mean I an expert at memorizing or doing mechs.

One issue on your response -- where do people get the idea that "bots" are filling ANYWHERE? (Note this isn't so much addressed to you as anyone who mis-uses that term). First off, an actual AI that plays the game for you (a bot), would be a huge undertaking -- and give we just went off of XIGNCODE3 (the anti cheat/anti-program) engine there is no way there would be the time or demand for an actual bot that could play BnS. Now whales -- another matter, people hanging around 'afk' (away from keyboard) -- those are common place events...but neither of those is a bot. Technically in the AI field a bot is a machine programmed to do some task because they can work 24x7 just like a machine! . More loosely defined in games is an external program that would play the game by itself to do low level tasks like farming. Given that most of the BnS world isn't build on any 'grid', even navigating -- getting a bot to walk or travel to some point would be a non-trival task. The closest thing to a bot might be something like a 'macro' -- but it would be very difficult to write a macro that has even the basic functionality of the in-game's 'simple' (I call it 'auto' or 'automatic') mode. Why?... because 'simple' mode can "access" your characters current state and the state of the surrounding environment. Have you looked what simple mode does (you can see the behaviors off of your s_K_ills page. It does things based on your status -- like if you have a buff -- do 1 thing, else if something else is going on -- do another thing. A macro can't tell when you have a buff -- it can't make "decisions" based on what's going on. So really, without the "hooks" (points where information or status can be read) that simple mode has access to and uses -- you can't have a really good "automatic" mode macro. Anyway to people in general, if you really think someone is using a 'bot' of some sort, theoretically you are supposed to report them -- though I'd more wanna get to know how they make things work -- do they use an AI 'seeing' program to navigate the world? Etc... More likely is they have some complex macros on a keyboard that a human can activate based on their knowledge of whats going on around them -- but it will be hard for them to be as good or accurate about the state of things around them as the 'simple' mode has can. Simple mode doesn't seem to do a good job for classes that require alot of manual typing skill/speed to do well. But classes that have 1 dominant attack sequence can be automated reasonably well. Really for a chance of making something useful for all classes in the game, I wish they'd let players add their own 'simple/auto' mode, then they might have something better than that which doesn't work for them. Anyway, if someone is really good about knowing what state they are in, then macros can give them an edge. But an actual 'bot'? I think this game is too complex to make development of a real bot worth it. I certainly wouldn't say it would be impossible to develop, but just that it wouldn't be easy and I would find it hard for someone to justify the development costs. And now -- back to our regularly scheduled ranting and raving! . .

There is no way. They come infrequently and in small amounts, some think they get some rewards in 6's PvP, but I've seen them farming down in CB for what I know are slim pickings. The only think I've found were you could actually farm something used to be at SSP before the last equipment upgrade -- now, can't farm there, but before, I might be able to get up to 2x500 prestige points if I was lucky and turn those in for soulstone bags. But now, I'm higher level, but compared to others, I'm 6-8 months behind -- others who have stayed caught up were bragging how they spent 16K in the past 6 months bringing up a new character or two. Well beyond my limits. I got my PP off the NPC's, if you can solo the top boss there he's worth over 1000 PP's, but he's tough. Now, though it's hard to even get there with the required buffs before he's dead. Also, thre used to be 6 waves of middle bosses worth in the 100's each that were sent out -- but they are only sent out if the other sides drills are still running. And so often I come in and the other side has killed off the drills and you have to wait for over a half an hour for anything to happen again, so its gotten pretty messed up.

Oh?...I got that it was for players to catch up, and since I usually need equipment 25-50% better than norm I'm very far behind. Every clan I've been in so far tells me I should be doing 2-3x the damage I do. So to catch up, I need equipment that does 2-3x what I do now. If that isn't far behind, I don't know what is. It's not the gear, its what you can do with it it. If you need high level gear to stay even with the Jones, that's what one needs, just because you don't get that doesn't invalidate it. Everything else you say is about some specific level of gear rather than where you are at with it. So until I'm at the level where I can get those items advanced and items like the blood attire as easily as others, I'm very far behind. I don't have the neck or glove, as there's no way to do those quests in a group, so they fail the accessibility test. As far as TT gear, most claim the weapon is outdone by aransu 9 until cg gets to 6, so from the start, one is behind. But I've been waiting to find some clan that isn't messed up for over a year at aransu 9. When ET came out I tried to get people to come and explore and try it out w/me, and I got kicked from the clan cuz they didn't want to do it because the videos on how to do the mechs hadn't come out yet and they didn't want to go and get killed and they thought trying a dungeon they weren't ready for was pointless. No I need to go and wait my turn doing auto-death dungeons with DPS gates I can't touch. I couldn't participate in the last event cuz I wasn't high enough, and neither in this one because I'm not low enough. Do you realize how lame that sounds?