PatchKid

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Posts posted by PatchKid


  1. 11 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

    Nice. But  why do you say range is better on Sin?

     

     

    Many of their stuns and dazes are longer range actually.  Change places stun is basically max range.  Swift Step is 8m range.  Lightning Rend is 5m (which is annoying because I can see you coming, and it reaches farther than sweep does).  Whatever the stun/daze skill is that lets you teleport to the target's back when you land a shiruken from stealth and stun them (or maybe that's a combination of stuff?)

     

    The gap closing + stun mechanics for assassins are much better than KFM.  Primarily because they are super difficult or impossible to avoid because you have no target until after the effect is applied.  This definitely helps them deal with latency when compared to KFM.

     

    Most people claim KFM is really hard.  It's not that's it's hard.  Rather, it's more difficult to adapt to situations like bad latency, multiple slows or enemy movement speed increases because the class relies on being able to keep within 3m range of the target to initiate any meaningful damage.


  2. 1 hour ago, AyeAye said:

     

    Tell you another class that does what? Puts you in a form of CC that you can only escape with tab?

     

    Well, right off the bat, KFM. He also has options. Similar to web, he can launch you air attack you.

     

    THEN he can grapple you(Actually better then webbing IMO, especially if your enemy burned tab already because you can just unconsiouce him and then 100-0 him)

     

    Also the KFM has the option to NOT grapple you, let you fall after the air juggle and go straight in to a combo stun now that ground stuns work.

     

    To name a few others.

     

    BD, DESTROYER, FM, Summoner.

     

    Guess what, the majority of these other classes can simply "Pick you up" and while your in their grab (Similar to being webbed) they actually have a shit ton of options to deal dmg and or do other means of controlling the battle.

     

    Enough bullshit already, In order to get webbed by a Sin he had to daze launch you, which is not easy to do unless he sneak attacks you first.

     

    Keep on making up these fairy tales, or pretending like every class doesn't do the same shit and I will continue to make you look stupid mr 'platinum'

     

    KFM

     

    1. Counter= Daze?

     

    2. Iron shoulder = Daze

     

    3. Comet strike = Daze

     

    4. Tab escape = Daze.

     

    5. Tremor = Daze

     

    6. Flurry = Daze

     

    7. Searing Palm = Daze.

     

    8. Rising dragon = Daze

     

    Actually to make things even better, SOME of these are stuns. Which are far more effective. That's just off the top of my head from playing my KFM a couple days ago.

     

     

    I'm not sure you know how the KFM class works exactly.

     

    Counter - Most people do not spec counter into Stun because it makes the CD 4x longer (6s CD vs 1.3s CD).  Instead, "spammable" Counter tends to be much more useful in PvP unless you're fighting an opponent that is extremely easy to counter.

     

    Tremor and Rising Dragon are stuns (though you did mention that some of them were stuns).

     

    Searing Palm is actually a stun - but it is not so easy as just hit the target and stun them.  It requires you to land 8 successive hits on a target in a short time period to achieve the stun.  If you fail to do this, then the target will not be stunned, but they will get knocked down once the debuff wears off if it is not first consumed by a stun.

     

    What's mainly important to remember about the difference when comparing Sins vs KFMs is range.  Most of these attacks require very short range to achieve.  I think all except Comet Strike have only 3m range.  This is the primary reason why KFM suffers the most from bad latency in the arena.  If the target appears to be nearby, but moved slightly due to bad ms then you will easily miss your key CCs.  They also have substantial CDs.  Many of the sin stuns have substantially better range making it more forgiving in laggy situations.  Not that any class plays exceptionally well in lag, but KFM's super short range tends to play the worst.

     

    PS - You didn't mention their most useful stun from Q/E.  A successful dodge using Q/E will allow them to use Spin Kick, which is a 2s stun (3m range) that has only a 9s CD.  It's the most useful CC in the entire KFM arsenal.


  3. Well, thanks for the tips - I actually used an incredibly unorthodox method to beat him tonight.  When he starts his frost circles, and does the three quick attacks that strike the ground I just stood my ground in his face and beat the crap out of him.  Immediately after the 3rd ground attack, he does a counter (grabs his hat) - which makes him vulnerable to grapple.  So I just grappled him, healed back 90% of the damage he just dealt, and then start spamming E or Q (depending which was off CD) as soon as the grapple animation completed to dodge his followup attacks.  Which lets you spin kick stun him for some more quick damage spam.

     

    Worked great.  Beat him in like 4 minutes with sub-optimal gear (true profane, no AP diamond just some of your cheap gems, and max infernal jewelry with siren belt and siren bracelet).  Got my last piece of Eternal whatever soul shield, so now I can focus on PvP for a while until I can afford to upgrade my weapons!


  4. Just now, MelodyOfWings said:

    Normally i would agree with you... however, the need for Soul stones is too great for pve, and since the only effective way to farm them is PVP, it makes no sense. PVP players should receive rewards effective and related to pvp... and the vis versa for pve... however, PVPers are gaining PVE rewards while PVE is rewarding things that improve PVP... its backwards.

     

     

    If we're back to the soulstone argument, farm gold in PvE and buy them.  I primarily PvP,  I don't have gold because I also like to upgrade my character.  However, I refuse to "grind" PvE.  I can't stand repeating the same content over and over, which is what PvE does.  I do it when I am forced to do so (like when I did 30 runs of Brightstone just to get a damn random weapon drop to upgrade my weapon).

     

    While my PvE weapon doesn't matter in the Arena, I do enjoy being able to participate in PvE.  I don't pursue it, and don't make it my focus, but being handicapped in any area of the game is irritating.  Instead of whining about how the best way to achieve my desired results is to do repeatable PvE content, I sell my soulshards and use the gold to buy the crap I would otherwise have to farm.

     

    For example, I made About 10G selling 30 soulshards last night.  Now I am going to buy an 11G key, so when I open this chest I got from BSH it will be the weapon I need.  Is that the most effective use of my gold?  HELL NO!  But it saves me from having to sit in a crappy instance waiting for the RNG gods to let me unlock a the 20th or 40th box to receive the weapon upgrade I am searching for.

     

    Doing this means I will have to spend days PvPing to recoup the lost gold that I will spend, and earn enough soulstones to unlock my weapon.  Am I mad about that?  Is it fair?  Sure it is!  I get to play the game that I want to play, and I can still achieve the results I want -- albeit slower than someone focused entirely on PvE.

     

    So, don't PvP if you don't like it!  Go PvE, make gold, buy your soulstones and move to the next grind.


  5. 14 minutes ago, MelodyOfWings said:

    No... i want PVE=PVP... both sides need to be rewarding... Not 1 more than the other... THATS CALLED BALANCED... ya know... the thing that makes games fun.

     

    Both sides are rewarding.  This game rewards players who engage in both activities more than it rewards players who engage in only a single playstyle.

     

    You are arguing that 100% PvE focus should be just as rewarding as 100% PvP focus - but you're not right in your assumption.  The reality is that 100% PvE focus is more rewarding the 100% PvP focus.  There is absolutely zero way for a person who joins the Arena to advance their character aside from gaining experience.

     

    If you focus 100% on PvE you can:

    1. Level quickly

    2. Gain Hongmoon skills (yet to be released)

    3. Earn lots of gold easily

    4. Craft

    5. Have access to tons of cosmetic upgrades

    6. Upgrade your own personal gear through PvE farming
     

    If you focus 100% on PvP you can:

    1. Level extremely slowly

    2. Gain only the single Hongmoon skill offered via Zen Beans

    3. Earn Zen Beans for soulstones that you can't use because your equipment was never upgraded to the point where they actually matter

    4. Gain gold from selling soulstones

    5. Have access to a very small set of cosmetic items

    6. Never be able to upgrade your own equipment because all the upgrades are in PvE instance

     

    And while gear doesn't matter in the least for Arena PvP - if you decide you want to do PvP in the open world, you will not have a chance.

     

     

    PVE rewards players immensely.  Just because there is an opportunity to speed up your progression by participating in PvP doesn't mean you can't gain the rewards.  By your argument, every single hongmoon skill they ever release should be purchasable with zen beans.  Otherwise, "it's unfair!!!"


  6. 37 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

    It's not the only variable, but it's the variable that causes the most trouble.  Remove all forms of healing from 1v1 and go with boxing rules for voting.  

    I do think that would be a more fair method than the current incarnation.  Especially if they can add in values like countering and dodging skills as part of the score calculation.  The only concern is that it dramatically reduces playstyle options and limits players to basically pure DPS builds when most games with PvP elements support diversity in playstyle.

     

    Having some ability to restore HP has been a game changer for me in many situations.  I've recovered from being down to 365 HP in one match, and pounded my way back to 10k HP then stole the victory because my opponent got too confident.  Without the healing mechanics, that kind of comeback opportunity gets eliminated, and it really does become whoever draws the first TAB escape wins the match 90% of the time.

     

    After browsing through the skill trees, it's apparent that every class has a means of healing.  Some of them are far more passive, but those classes also tend to be the lower skill curve classes (Dest and Summ mainly).  Everyone else has a method of healing in some way if they chose to train that method, and most of those methods require you to sacrifice something else (DPS or Utility).

     

    Just to make sure the point of this thread is 100% clear - I don't think HEALING should have anything to do with score.  The amount healed is irrelevant.  I think your HP PERCENTAGE should matter.  There's a major difference, and that is the problem with all these replies talking about heals.  Very few healing options deal much damage.  Many of them do ZERO damage.  If someone is focusing on healing the entire match, odds our the opponent still has significant HP Percentage by comparison, and did substantially (3-4-5x) more damage.

     

    So someone who "turtles" and heals the entire time isn't going to hurt their opponent enough for them to win after the timer. They will still be substantially lower in damage done, and even if their HP% is higher than the opponent, it won't be very much higher to matter.


  7. 6 minutes ago, MelodyOfWings said:

    You mean the Achievement that requires you to EAT a royal Zen bean? or the one that you can just buy off someone else? PVPer are making absurd amounts of money off soulstones.

     

    We're not communicating effectively.  If you want the hongmoon skill that requires you to eat a royal zen bean, do your daily PvP quests.

     

    Just like if anyone wants any of the other major hongmoon skills (which are arguably useful in comparison) then they have to farm instances, farm achievements in the PvE world, and do other PvE activities.  Most of those skills aren't unlocked yet, but they will gate PvP players who don't like to PvE.

     

    The simple fact that PvE is basically essential to just get hongmoon levels, is enough of an argument for the 5000 bean "grind" for those who prefer not to PvP.

     

    The fact that people are making good money on soulstones presently is not really a factor.  That is going to die out in less than a month when soulstone prices continue to fall and the best way to make gold will continue to be farming materials and grinding PvE daily quests.

     

    What sucks for everyone is that you actually can AFK your way through the PvP grind if you chose to do so.  You'll get 7 beans every loss, and you can AFK for 3/5 daily PvP quests also.


  8. 3 minutes ago, MelodyOfWings said:

    And what do we do about the Royal Zen bean that costs 5000 Zen beans?

     

    What do PvP players do about the Hongmoon skills that require you to do absurd PvE achievements?  Suck it up!!

     

    Grind the daily quests like everyone else.  You'll be done in under a week.  Sorry, but you don't have a leg to stand on with that argument.  Way more grinding is required for other hongmoon skills, and some of them only drop in instances.

     

    This thread's primary complaint is that PvE players are whining about soulstone grinding being only accessible via PvP when the reality is you can grind gold in PvE and buy the soulstones.


  9. This doesn't sound like a KFM issue.  It sounds like the party you're with isn't explaining the "method" of avoiding mobs.  I understand the frustration as I experienced the same problem.

     

    However, KFM is one of the best classes to run through mobs.  I recommend if you start to get focus fired by a bunch of enemies, use Q or E (not both at the same time).  You'll get 3 stacks of agility and that will give you 6 seconds of +100% speed boost and you'll dodge every attack for those 6 seconds.  Then, have 1 point in S in your skill tree that gives you +50% speed boost when you SS.  After the 6 seconds of speed boost wear off, do a quick 180 spin, tap SS, and then turn back around and continue to move at +50% speed (faster than mobs can catch you).

     

    Now, if you are still falling behind (because the others are actually windrunning and not running a normal speed), you still have either Q or E to do another agility stack.  And finally, you can also put points into your TAB leap to give you +35% speed increase for a short burst after using it, and target something ahead of you.

     

    - The best solution is still to just let someone else go in front, and be sure if you don't know the strategy for running through the mobs, to just ask for tips on how to avoid the creatures.


  10. There's a lot simpler answer to this:

     

    Don't want to farm PvP for zen beans?  NO PROBLEM!  Go farm gold.  You like to PvE, right?  Well, you can make 20g a day doing just PvE.  How many soulstones do you need?  Farm the Gold!

     

    No one is forcing you to PvP.  In fact, BnS has given PvE players more opportunities for equipment advancement than PvP players by leaps and bounds.  If PvP players want to get hongmoon levels, they have to PvE.  The reason they have to do this is because they will be at a major disadvantage in PvP if they do not farm the levels out doing PvE.

     

    Do PvE players have to farm Arena?  HELL NO!  Go farm daily quests, instances, and get gold!!!!!!  What does that do!?  BUYS YOU SOULSTONES!  I made 6g from a SINGLE run of Brighstone.  It took 15 minutes.  A recipe dropped and it went for 30g, and so I get to take home 6g.  That buys me about 10-15 soulstones.  Amazing!  That's faster than I can do my PvP daily quests.  Of course, that's some luck for you, but PvE = gold = soulstones.

     

    Stop complaining when you have multiple routes to achieve the end goal.  If you don't like PvP, that's fine.  Don't PvP.  Farm gold in PvE and buy your damn soulstones.  PvP players that want to progress don't even have that option.  They can't "farm rank" in Arena to unlock hongmoon levels.  It doesn't work that way.  It will take them 30x as long to get hongmoon levels from just PvPing.

     

    Do you think PvP players are swimming in soulstones?  Well, maybe they are!  But guess what they aren't swimming in?  XP for Levels and GOLD!  That sounds like some solid balance between aspects of the game.


  11. 1 hour ago, Hazgaz said:

    Using HP as a source of victory will just create more Attrition Battles.  Long drawn out fights based on HP.  No.  

     

    Why does everyone assume that HP would be the only variable?  Do you folks not understand that you can combine more than one variable into an equation?

     

    HP remaining, Combos landed, CCs avoided, CCs landed, Hits, Damage done - sooooo many variables could be used to determine victory.  Right now the system uses one variable.  The only variable is damage done.  It should continue to include damage done.  Damage done is super important.  No one should ever argue that damage done shouldn't be part of the equation.


    Have I mentioned that DAMAGE DONE IS IMPORTANT enough yet?  Should I bold that damage done needs to be part of the equation so that it is understood that the suggestion is not to eliminate damage from deciding victory?

     

    I recommend that if the only "skill" that matters is dealing damage - remove the timer.  Then it becomes gladiator battles, and not a "sport".


  12. I feel like some classes have an advantage in this fight, but at one gear level is it reasonable to fight Junghado as a KFM before the enrage timer?

     

    At this time I'm using true profane gauntlet with max infernal weapons.  I can easily beat floors 1-6.  Junghado usually kills me because I have to go over-board on offense and can't even stop to counter 90% of the time or I will run out of time on the enrage.  When I tried this fight more defensively I hit that enrage every time, so I'm curious what is the expected gear.

     

    One of the big areas that I think I'm missing is gems.  What gems would one expect to have going into this fight?

     

    Edit: I'm also curious as to what are the most desirable PvE gems for KFM.  I'm spending most of my time in PvP, but will need to keep up with the leveling curve somewhat, so I should gear appropriately.


  13. On 2/17/2016 at 6:33 AM, Mariester said:

    So you would rather see people avoiding fights, only coming in when its advantageous and specing into cc or full heal? Its already cancerous and we only have 3minutes pair round. This game rewards PLAYING not avoiding interractions. Every classes has good damage. Some classes struggle against some and they do use different builds to last the game timer and avoid all unwanted interaction so they don't die before that. That playstyle is very negative and antiplay which is why this game don't reward you for it.

     

    This is exactly what BDs do against me.  They just run away and avoid combat because they unload 20-35% of my HP at the start of the round with a double stun / air combo that can do 15-20% HP (depending on crits).  Then they just spin and run away, use their iframe / invulns and avoid fighting for the next 2.5 minutes.  In the end, the only CC I can use against BDs is knock-downs, and when I knock them down I grapple them so I can restore some of that lost HP they can easily burn off my character in the first 30 seconds of the fight.

     

    This is extremely common against mostly BDs, and sometimes Destroyers.  They are the ones playing defensively.  They get in super quick damage, and when they see I can reset the HP meter against them they go on the defense until the timer runs out.  Why?  Because they get to win the match that way.

     

    Assassins have employed this tactic non-stop as well.  The difference is that I rarely get an opportunity to grapple Assassins, which is why I don't spec grapple vs. them (ice to bring them out of stealth is much more useful).  However, they play the "I did enough damage to win" game all the time.

     

    Again - the people abusing the system are the ones playing defensively.  Get enough damage in to win, and then turtle the rest of the match.  This isn't about playing defensively.  It's about playing strategically.  Any time a match goes to the timer and my HP is significantly higher  than my opponent's HP, and they were at the disadvantage, the round ends and they get the victory is complete bullshit.

     

    MMA and even Boxing take more into consideration than just "hits landed".  It's part of the consideration, but this game is not boxing it's MMA by definition (mixed martial arts in a fantasy setting).  These are the considerations used when a decision is made in MMA:

     

    1. Effective Striking - game translation, damage done

    2. Effective Grappling - game translation, every successful CC landed

    3. Control of the Fighting Area - game translation, this to me translates into HP management in this game

    4. Effective Aggressiveness and Defense - game translation, landing counters and avoiding attacks (abilities activated by defensive action, counter, block, parry, Q/E SS dodges where the attack is negated)

     

    In MMA you get points if you get a take down, and you also get points if you defend against a take down.  The guy who holds the center of the arena and keeps the opponent from taking control of the timing also gets more points.  The person who is able to block and avoid being hit gets points for blocking and avoiding hits.

     

    HOWEVER - They also get points for landing hits!

     

    I, in no way, believe that damage done is an invalid metric of success in PvP.  It is not the only valid metric for success in PvP.


  14. 27 minutes ago, Kensho1996 said:

    and HOW the heck do you deal with the roots as a KFM .. same issue goes with the FMs .. you can't break it so you get to stand still while the snipe you ..

     

    THEN there is the tiny assed hit box then ALL lyn now have as they are all made as small as possible .. the fact that the lyn get such a small hit box is making it even harder to deal with these classes that have 1 or 2 abilities that CC and make players lose control off 1 or 2 easy attacks as well .. you clear your releases in a few seconds

     

    This is actually not a problem for KFM.  KFM might have the most gap closers.

     

    Couple tips for KFM vs Summ.

     

    #1. Don't put any points into SS.  It doubles the CD.  SS is your root break.  With 1 point in SS it takes the CD from 9 seconds to 18 seconds for a 50% speed boost after use, which is great vs some opponents (like BD/Dest), but a detriment vs ranged opponents specifically.

    #2. Put 3 points into Avenging Fist.  This lets you RMB after a counter that will remove all movement impairments including FM stacks of frost (only need the 3pts for FMs, 1 point usually works fine vs Summs).

    #3. For FM it might be a good idea to not spec the slam knock-up (TAB) feature as you will have a 6s CD gap closer for after their stun break or grip + throw.  For Summoners, I actually like the 1min CD ability because it can mess up both cat + summoner

    #4. If you're having a latency problem with summs, spec into 3 (leg sweep) to add a snare effect.  This will help you keep within 3m range so you can Q/E them more easily.

    #5. Use Q or E once and face the pet who is always on your ass to get 6 second dodge to basically everything the summoner will use at you, and +100% speed boost.

     

    The above is the primary reasons that KFM is one of the best counters to Summoner.  Also, very important to change your TAB escape to break grapples instead of stuns against a summoner because they do not use stuns (dazes and grapple + grab).  This will let you break free from the pet pinning you to the ground and then getting burst by them.  For every other opponent you will want TAB escape to break stuns.


  15. 17 minutes ago, Bcl said:

    sm can't do stun stun and again stun.classes who know how to take advantage of his stun lock can burst at least 70% of sm life..so please learn your class.

    This is completely out of context.  Summoners have plenty of escape mechanics without abusing pet CC, great invuln options, and amazing damage potential.  The fact that they can control their pet while not in control of their own character is broken.

     

    TBH - my class is pretty damn good against summoners.  I am probably 50/50 against them myself as a KFM, but I'm not great.  If I were great, I'd probably be stomping them a lot more often.  That's primarily because KFM has a great counter-play mechanic that does wonders when facing summoners.  In the end, the only problem I see with the class is their ability to not suffer the same disadvantage every other class suffers when crowd controlled.  All abilities should be disabled, including pet abilities.


  16. On 2/13/2016 at 3:45 PM, DolphinHungry said:

    keep ss to counter flashbang result= 1escape wasted, + good opportinity to stunlock

     

     

    This is the one area I cannot grasp.  How am I going to SS something that happens in less than .2 seconds?  I need to know if there's some other visual queue other than the little bomb that appears on the ground to know when to SS.  Also, does evading the flashbang prevent them from gaining stealth then?


  17. 3 minutes ago, Archaegeo said:

    Yes, but you can 100% cc both at the same time if you are clever because the pet is either following you or the summoner

     

     

    This is a very incorrect statement.  There are dozens of scenarios where the pet is not near the summoner.

     

    1. Pet is kneeling and healing or whatever it does

    2. Pet got CC'd because of TAB break or mis-target

    3. Summoner used F escape and was immediately charged while pet is still animating it's attack

    4. AI for pet is dumb and it doesn't move fluidly

     

    Need I go on?  The point isn't that I can't always CC the pet and the summoner at the same time.  Not to mention that 50% of my CCs are single-target, so there's also that fact.  The problem is that the summoner should not be able to issue commands while incapacitated.  That's it.  Change this one single element, and all their other ezmode bullshit is fine.  Tons of immunities, massive healing, amazing countering, invisibility, having 2 vs 1 advantage, grapple ability that allows them to do insane burst --- whatever.  It's nothing more impressive than any other single class...

     

    The fact that you can control your pet while you are no longer in control of yourself is broken and demonstrates unimaginative game design.


  18. Main thing to remember about BMs is don't charge into them when they back off.  Good way to get parry stunned.  Lumber up to them all nice and casual like and use RMB to stun them.

     

    When I fight BMs, it's a game of Q/E and RMB.  They will have no choice but to blow their TAB escape early in the fight because you will constantly stun them with RMB.  In fact, you can sometimes charge in with RMB and immediately hit RMB after to stun them as long as their spec doesn't immediately stun you after parry.


  19. Use knock-downs.  Spin2Win is vulnerable to knock-downs (and ups).  Grapple is not a bad skill to use on LBDs, though they can break it pretty easily, it's still easier to KB and Grapple a BD to get them to waste their escapes than it is to try and time a stun for the tiny window between spins.  Grab space when you see them with a single blade circling them.  That's their 5s or 5 hits invuln ability, and making them waste it by SS + 50% speed boost and going to the other side of the arena is golden.  Especially when you can TAB slam them after it expires.


  20. 29 minutes ago, Roxefeller said:

    +1

    To all of you that think your remaining HP should decide the match: If you're letting someone beat on you so much to the point they're out-damaging you enough to win, do you really think there's something wrong with the system? Or is it really just something wrong with what you're doing? Stop overthinking pvp. "Sometimes the best defense is a good offense." Stop focusing on defense/survival. You need a good offense and clearly, those of you that are arguing HP should decide the match are completely lacking in a good offense. If you weren't, your opponent would be dead and you wouldn't be faced with turtle matches.

     

    My original thought was that damage shouldn't be the only deciding factor to a timer victory.  No single component should be the final determining factor as to who did a better job.  Damage dealt should absolutely be part of the equation, but so should remaining health and combos.

     

    I fought an LBD this weekend that just spun and played 100% defensively the entire match.  3 minute timer each time and they won due to damage done.  In each case I had more HP because I was able to stop their spinning with a knock-down and a grapple.  Nothing I trained would have changed the outcome.  That tactic is extremely valid when damage is the only value that determines victory.

     

    Same situation happened with an assassin.  They were getting into trouble because I kept interrupting their stun-lock with a sweep, grapple, and some healing.  Switched back to stun and hide gameplay and let the timer run out.  Nothing I can do, but my HP was 75% and theirs was more like 20%.  Clearly I had the advantage, and if the timer wasn't there I would have worn them down.  Very frustrating to lose when you're obviously going to win...

     

    Has anyone here ever gone to the timer with a summoner?  I rarely make it out of the 1st minute against them.  Either they have destroyed me by spamming multiple immunities and CCing me when I get my CC's on them, or they get blown up before the 1st minute.  Not sure if that is a viable counter class to consider.

     

    The only class I have seen that has never done much self-healing during 1v1 is Assassin.  Everyone else seems to have some kind of healing.  BM heals very well.  KFM heals if they spec grapple (which means they lose some strong skills).  Dest heals with their shield out.  Summ obviously has powerful heals.  FM can heal pretty well (especially if you're stupid enough to hit them when they ice block).  LBD might be able to heal, but mostly they just have a ton of iframes and immunities to lots of CC. 

     

    I don't think the amount healed is important, but if you design a build that counters super aggressive builds, then that strategy should be just as capable of winning if the numbers show they have the advantage.  It's really stupid to think that someone with 10% HP is going to beat someone sitting at 50%+ HP just because they did 20% more damage, but had zero defensive skills.